Timecode at DVinfo.net

Steven Dempsey · March 25th, 2008, 04:58 PM

I know this has been discussed a million times but I can't seem to find a definitive answer.

Thus far I have not had to worry about timecode because of my simple workflow but now I am shooting a butt load of footage for a client and they are taking timecode readings and making notes as I'm shooting. They are relying on me to capture the footage given the proprietary nature of 24f.

I captured everything in Sony Vegas 7 as m2ts but there is no way to match up the time code readings they took for each clip without reassembling the entire tape material on a continuous timeline.

I also tried capturing using HDVsplit, no timecode embedded in the files.

I also tried using Premiere Pro CS3 using the HDV settings that need to be downloaded separately (originally for Premiere Pro 2) and it won't allow scene detection using that setting.

This is so frustrating and I haven't spoken to the client yet. Am I screwed or is there a way to capture this stuff from tape with embedded timecode?

Marcel D. Van Someren · March 25th, 2008, 05:45 PM

Steven,

If I understand your question, you have clients that jot down timecode as you shoot your footage so they can tell you where to cut each clip. Your problem is that when you place it on the timeline it takes on the timeline timecode and not the original clip timecode so it's tough to match up to their notes?

If that's the case, I've had the problem as well. The ONLY way i've found to do that is in Edius Pro. When you drop the footage in the preview/source window, it shows you the embedded timecode that the XHA1 has recorded to the clip. You can set your in / out points at the timecode your clients listed and then drag it to the timeline. Of course, when its on the timeline it takes on the timecode of the timeline. You can export the clips to use in another NLE for the actual edit.

This is really the only reason I use Edius these days. I use NewTek's SpeedEdit for most other NLE needs. I used SpeedEdit to capture the m2t footage from the XHA1 and used auto scene detection. It keeps the embeded timecode. I've compared the timecode in the preview/source window in Edius to the tape in the A1 and the timecode matches perfectly

I don't know if that helps you much or if I even understood your question correctly. But if this is the issue you're having, maybe you have a friend who has Edius so you can cut your clips.

When Canopus owned that software, they offered a free trial download, but I don't know if GrassValley, who owns it now does the same thing.

I apologize if I missunderstood your question.

Steven Dempsey · March 25th, 2008, 05:48 PM

Yes, you basically understood the question, except I'm not editing the footage, just capturing it and then handing it off to an editor that I will not be working with.

Unfortunately I don't know anyone with Edius nor do I have access to it.

I appreciate you taking the time to answer.

Marcel D. Van Someren · March 25th, 2008, 05:58 PM

No Problem. I'm sorry it wasn't more helpful. If you do find another or more elegant solution, I would love to hear about it.

Kees van Duijvenbode · March 26th, 2008, 01:41 AM

Steven. At home I have a procedure how to capture HDV within Vegas (as one big clip without scene detection) and then let a script do the scene detection. The meaning of that procedure seems to be to avoid 12 secs problems that Vegas seems to have when capturing with scene detection.
If I remember well the scene detection script is able to display all kind of information that is in the footage. Donn't know for sure if the timecode is one of them. I will try to investigate that for you this evening (that will be about 12 hours from now).

Annie Haycock · March 26th, 2008, 06:50 AM

I can read timecode with Premiere elements4. Even if I capture five-minutes segments from the tape, the time-code is still there. So I am surprised that that you can't read it in CS3. It seems to match up ok with what I noted at the time of recording, not that I've used it that way much.

Richard Gooderick · March 26th, 2008, 08:20 AM

I'm not sure if I understand the question completely but I had a problem last week that was similar. Here was the solution in case it is any help.

A production company want to view a load of footage of the sea that I shot for a project. They have enquired about licencing some of it for their own production.

I assembled the footage on the timeline in Liquid in order to burn a DVD.

But, if I just sent the DVD it would be very difficult to identify excerpts from descriptions ie you begin to run out of adjectives very quickly when faced with 90 minutes of waves.

Problem. Liquid cannot produce burnt-in timecode.

Solution. I downloaded a plug-in called Timecode Pro V2 from Harold Linke's site:

www.hlinke.de/Home_e/home_e.html

This works great in Liquid. I can zero the timecode at the beginning of the timeline. I can adjust position, size, font and colour to match my url (captioned on the timeline). It looks professional.

If they want to do a deal all they have to do is email me the timecode from the DVD. I can then go to the timeline. Dial up the time-in to get to the start of the clip. Match the frame to the source which takes me to the original clip and export the duration required in an appropriate format.

I think that this plug-in was ported to Liquid so it may work in your NLE.

I also think that it is possible to set the plug-in to read the timecode on the tape. But I wasn't planning to do that myself and would have to experiment to find out. Let me know if you want me to do this for you.

I hope this helps.

Kees van Duijvenbode · March 26th, 2008, 01:03 PM

Steven, is this the information you are looking for?

Annie Haycock · March 26th, 2008, 01:07 PM

That is information I would like to see. So where/how do you get it?

Kees van Duijvenbode · March 27th, 2008, 08:48 AM

It's done with a tool and a script (for Sony Vegas). The preocedure how to use them is in dutch so I have to translate that first for you. Give me a few days and I will post an answer to your question in english along with the tool and the script.

It seems Steven is killed by his client ??? :-))

Steven Dempsey · March 30th, 2008, 09:48 AM

Thanks for the replies...have been in Cali shooting...just got back. I'll read all the responses.

Steven

Simon Dean · July 9th, 2008, 03:33 PM

Okay so I know it's July. But I found a way to work it for me in Vegas.
In fact it even works for Cineform converted footage.

Use HDVSplit to get the m2t files, use the Timecodes program by the same author and cut and paste the results into a text document.

I then use Cineform to convert to avi.

I import the avi into Vegas (6) and then I wrote a script that changes the timecode properties for all the clips by reading in the text document above - giving them a 'custom' timecode that is actually the original one.

It makes it loads easier when working with many clips (Last project only had 2 hours footage, but had a cut at least once a minute, getting the right timecode really helped in finding the clips).

Hope that helps someone!

March 25th, 2008, 04:58 PM	#1
Steven Dempsey Disjecta Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 937	Timecode I know this has been discussed a million times but I can't seem to find a definitive answer. Thus far I have not had to worry about timecode because of my simple workflow but now I am shooting a butt load of footage for a client and they are taking timecode readings and making notes as I'm shooting. They are relying on me to capture the footage given the proprietary nature of 24f. I captured everything in Sony Vegas 7 as m2ts but there is no way to match up the time code readings they took for each clip without reassembling the entire tape material on a continuous timeline. I also tried capturing using HDVsplit, no timecode embedded in the files. I also tried using Premiere Pro CS3 using the HDV settings that need to be downloaded separately (originally for Premiere Pro 2) and it won't allow scene detection using that setting. This is so frustrating and I haven't spoken to the client yet. Am I screwed or is there a way to capture this stuff from tape with embedded timecode? __________________ Try my Digital Therapy: http://www.pinelakefilms.com/digital_therapy.html Films on ExposureRoom: http://exposureroom.com/members/disjecta.aspx/videos/

March 25th, 2008, 05:48 PM	#3
Steven Dempsey Disjecta Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 937	Yes, you basically understood the question, except I'm not editing the footage, just capturing it and then handing it off to an editor that I will not be working with. Unfortunately I don't know anyone with Edius nor do I have access to it. I appreciate you taking the time to answer. __________________ Try my Digital Therapy: http://www.pinelakefilms.com/digital_therapy.html Films on ExposureRoom: http://exposureroom.com/members/disjecta.aspx/videos/

March 26th, 2008, 06:50 AM	#6
Annie Haycock Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Pembrokeshire, Wales Posts: 734	I can read timecode with Premiere elements4. Even if I capture five-minutes segments from the tape, the time-code is still there. So I am surprised that that you can't read it in CS3. It seems to match up ok with what I noted at the time of recording, not that I've used it that way much. __________________ Canon XH A1; Canon XF100; Nikon D800

March 26th, 2008, 08:20 AM	#7
Richard Gooderick Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 795	I'm not sure if I understand the question completely but I had a problem last week that was similar. Here was the solution in case it is any help. A production company want to view a load of footage of the sea that I shot for a project. They have enquired about licencing some of it for their own production. I assembled the footage on the timeline in Liquid in order to burn a DVD. But, if I just sent the DVD it would be very difficult to identify excerpts from descriptions ie you begin to run out of adjectives very quickly when faced with 90 minutes of waves. Problem. Liquid cannot produce burnt-in timecode. Solution. I downloaded a plug-in called Timecode Pro V2 from Harold Linke's site: www.hlinke.de/Home_e/home_e.html This works great in Liquid. I can zero the timecode at the beginning of the timeline. I can adjust position, size, font and colour to match my url (captioned on the timeline). It looks professional. If they want to do a deal all they have to do is email me the timecode from the DVD. I can then go to the timeline. Dial up the time-in to get to the start of the clip. Match the frame to the source which takes me to the original clip and export the duration required in an appropriate format. I think that this plug-in was ported to Liquid so it may work in your NLE. I also think that it is possible to set the plug-in to read the timecode on the tape. But I wasn't planning to do that myself and would have to experiment to find out. Let me know if you want me to do this for you. I hope this helps. Last edited by Richard Gooderick; March 26th, 2008 at 08:30 AM. Reason: addition to clarify point

March 26th, 2008, 01:03 PM	#8
Kees van Duijvenbode Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 246	Steven, is this the information you are looking for? Attached Thumbnails

March 25th, 2008, 05:45 PM	#2
Marcel D. Van Someren Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 325	Steven, If I understand your question, you have clients that jot down timecode as you shoot your footage so they can tell you where to cut each clip. Your problem is that when you place it on the timeline it takes on the timeline timecode and not the original clip timecode so it's tough to match up to their notes? If that's the case, I've had the problem as well. The ONLY way i've found to do that is in Edius Pro. When you drop the footage in the preview/source window, it shows you the embedded timecode that the XHA1 has recorded to the clip. You can set your in / out points at the timecode your clients listed and then drag it to the timeline. Of course, when its on the timeline it takes on the timecode of the timeline. You can export the clips to use in another NLE for the actual edit. This is really the only reason I use Edius these days. I use NewTek's SpeedEdit for most other NLE needs. I used SpeedEdit to capture the m2t footage from the XHA1 and used auto scene detection. It keeps the embeded timecode. I've compared the timecode in the preview/source window in Edius to the tape in the A1 and the timecode matches perfectly I don't know if that helps you much or if I even understood your question correctly. But if this is the issue you're having, maybe you have a friend who has Edius so you can cut your clips. When Canopus owned that software, they offered a free trial download, but I don't know if GrassValley, who owns it now does the same thing. I apologize if I missunderstood your question.

March 25th, 2008, 05:58 PM	#4
Marcel D. Van Someren Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 325	No Problem. I'm sorry it wasn't more helpful. If you do find another or more elegant solution, I would love to hear about it.

March 26th, 2008, 01:41 AM	#5
Kees van Duijvenbode Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 246	Steven. At home I have a procedure how to capture HDV within Vegas (as one big clip without scene detection) and then let a script do the scene detection. The meaning of that procedure seems to be to avoid 12 secs problems that Vegas seems to have when capturing with scene detection. If I remember well the scene detection script is able to display all kind of information that is in the footage. Donn't know for sure if the timecode is one of them. I will try to investigate that for you this evening (that will be about 12 hours from now).

March 26th, 2008, 01:07 PM	#9
Annie Haycock Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Pembrokeshire, Wales Posts: 734	That is information I would like to see. So where/how do you get it? __________________ Canon XH A1; Canon XF100; Nikon D800

March 27th, 2008, 08:48 AM	#10
Kees van Duijvenbode Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 246	It's done with a tool and a script (for Sony Vegas). The preocedure how to use them is in dutch so I have to translate that first for you. Give me a few days and I will post an answer to your question in english along with the tool and the script. It seems Steven is killed by his client ??? :-))

March 30th, 2008, 09:48 AM	#11
Steven Dempsey Disjecta Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 937	Thanks for the replies...have been in Cali shooting...just got back. I'll read all the responses. Steven __________________ Try my Digital Therapy: http://www.pinelakefilms.com/digital_therapy.html Films on ExposureRoom: http://exposureroom.com/members/disjecta.aspx/videos/

July 9th, 2008, 03:33 PM	#12
Simon Dean Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Coventry, UK Posts: 91	Timecode... Okay so I know it's July. But I found a way to work it for me in Vegas. In fact it even works for Cineform converted footage. Use HDVSplit to get the m2t files, use the Timecodes program by the same author and cut and paste the results into a text document. I then use Cineform to convert to avi. I import the avi into Vegas (6) and then I wrote a script that changes the timecode properties for all the clips by reading in the text document above - giving them a 'custom' timecode that is actually the original one. It makes it loads easier when working with many clips (Last project only had 2 hours footage, but had a cut at least once a minute, getting the right timecode really helped in finding the clips). Hope that helps someone!