TrueColor configuration for XH A1

Lou Bruno · April 2nd, 2008, 07:25 AM

My camera has a blue cast in this setting which I was able to adjust via the menu. Having been a professional videographer since 1982, I have owned, rented and used more cameras than I can remember. It has been my experience both past and present that the SAME brand cameras can actually have a different colorimetry from each other.....even slightly. This, I assume, is the cause for a different hue when using presets.

I must agree a true WB card is necessary. I did use a pro WB card. My picture is slightly blue. However, as stated above, I virtually eliminated the blue in the presets via the custom menu.

NOTE: Some new videographers, who are in the special event area, tend to WB on a white table cloth or even a white shirt. This is a BIG NO NO!!! The fact is that the cloth appears white but will produce a blue cast due to the type of threading used to manufactor the cloth.

Just my thoughts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon Freeman

I'd like to suggest two possible issues with the blue cast.

1) XH-A1 users are accustomed to an overly red picture, so their eyes have adjusted -- thus neutral (red being normal) would appear blue.

2) The white balance dial is calibrated for an overly red picture.

Just thoughts, as I have found when dialing in the white balance with TrueColor that 3200k doesn't look right -- even under 3200k lighting. However, when white balancing with a sheet of paper, everything looked about right.

Rene Roslev · May 3rd, 2008, 03:30 PM

Once again, appreciate your efforts Paolo.

Just tried this preset with my SGpro 35mm adapter. Getting blown red channel very often, even with 0 color gain. Anyone else experiencing this?

Alex Plank · May 12th, 2008, 04:52 PM

I also get a blue cast, even when balancing with a white card. What did you change Lou?

Lou Bruno · May 12th, 2008, 07:04 PM

Try this Alex and let me know:

GAM M
KNEE M
BLK M
PED -4
SET -1
SHP 1
HDF M
DHV 0
COR 0
NR1 0
NR2 0
CMX N
CGN 22*
CPH 0
RGN-2
CGN 3
BGN -3
RGM 10
RBM -12
GRM 6
GBM 0
BRM 12
BGM -3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Plank

I also get a blue cast, even when balancing with a white card. What did you change Lou?

Alex Plank · May 12th, 2008, 11:12 PM

Thanks Lou. By the way, I'm not seeing the blue tint with paolo's settings when using roughly between 3000 and 4000k lights.

Is there any reason you set the sharpness to 1? (I can understand why you didn't keep it at -9 but I thought I heard someone say that a positive value for sharpness was not a good idea.)

I have a waveform monitor for my XH-A1 but I don't have the DSC chart to test these results against the levels set by Paolo. (If anyone wants to send me one I'd be happy to share my results ;-).

Have you done any waveform monitor tests with these new settings?

From the reports in this thread, I can only guess that there are two batches of XH-A1s. I hope there aren't other inconsistencies that will limit how much dynamic range our cameras capture compared to the possibly different version Paolo tested on.

Paolo, maybe you could weigh in?

Wayne Dupuis · May 14th, 2008, 07:45 PM

Wicked preset. Nice. It's a bit dark but can bring that back. I like that the image is not edgy, and that I can sharpen this up if I need in post. The colour on my Trinitron 12 incher is perfect and true. Thanks again. You can't blow this out though or you are $%^&*(.
No Cine grabbing the high end to pull it down, so you have to control all. Other than that...no blue.

Deke Ryland · May 21st, 2008, 06:27 AM

I have a question concerning the TRUECOLOR preset.

Looking at comparisons between the presets, I really like TRUECOLOR's colors, but it seems that the look is rather "soft" and it's not as sharp as say VIVIDRGB. Is this correct? If so, is there any way to make it take sharper pictures without ruining the image? Thanks for your help.

Christopher Neville · May 21st, 2008, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deke Ryland

I have a question concerning the TRUECOLOR preset.

Looking at comparisons between the presets, I really like TRUECOLOR's colors, but it seems that the look is rather "soft" and it's not as sharp as say VIVIDRGB. Is this correct? If so, is there any way to make it take sharper pictures without ruining the image? Thanks for your help.

Truecolor's sharpness is set very low, -7 I think, while vividrgb is at something like 1. My understanding was that the low sharpness setting was keep from adding noise while the image is being captured, and a light sharpness was to be done in post if you wanted it. It is discussed by Paolo Ciccone here: http://paolociccone.com/blog/?p=17#more-17

Paolo Ciccone · May 21st, 2008, 09:08 AM

Deke, that's because I turned the detail all the way down. This is because almost every video camera artificially sharpens the picture by darkening the pixels in th high contrast areas. This is an artificial manipulation that can be reproduced easily in post with higher quality and changed scene-by-scene instead of being "baked" in the pixels. BTW, the artificial sharpening is also what gives the "video look" and since my aim is to create a more cinematic look I dialed the detail down. You can increase it to your liking.

Deke Ryland · May 21st, 2008, 09:17 AM

Thanks for the help guys! I look forward to giving it a try. I'm new to videography but have heaps of experience in image correction, so I'll be interested to see how the post turns out! Thanks again!

Rene Roslev · May 25th, 2008, 05:37 AM

Regarding blown red channel when using Truecolor preset with 35mm adapters.

It's not just me that messed up :)
I've seen footage from other people that shows the same now. It's a very nice preset with the stock lens, but if you plan on shooting with a 35mm adapter be cautious. Even with 0 colorgain you risk clipping the red channel. Dialing in a negative value for colorgain may be a solution, but I haven't tested it myself.

Paolo Ciccone · May 25th, 2008, 02:42 PM

Rene, the type of lens will likely change the color response of the camera and that's another reason to get a chart and do your own calibration. It's impossible to put together a universal "recipe" that will work will every combination of optics.

Roger Shealy · May 25th, 2008, 08:55 PM

Paolo,

Thanks for the TrueColor preset for the A1 I really like it for outdoor scenes. I tried several of the others and felt they made the colors unrealistic. Yours does a nice job of putting things close to true and I can correct in post. I'm now limiting my CP's to Canon Factory setting, Panalook2, and TrueColor.

Thanks for a great start!

Alex Plank · June 8th, 2008, 06:31 PM

Been loving this preset. Here's a thread with some beach footage in California I shot using it:

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=123304

David McGiffert · June 13th, 2008, 10:00 AM

I just used this preset, with a few minor tweeks based on the shooting conditions,
on about five hours of shooting for a documentary I'm doing
and I think it's fantastic..
I just wanted to add my thanks to the many posters here,
especially Paolo,
who provided a wealth of information regarding how it was done.
It gives me a look that I wanted but could not get for myself.
Nice work.

David

May 14th, 2008, 07:45 PM	#111
Wayne Dupuis Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Victoria BC Posts: 29	HD and SD ? Wicked preset. Nice. It's a bit dark but can bring that back. I like that the image is not edgy, and that I can sharpen this up if I need in post. The colour on my Trinitron 12 incher is perfect and true. Thanks again. You can't blow this out though or you are $%^&(. No Cine grabbing the high end to pull it down, so you have to control all. Other than that...no blue. Last edited by Wayne Dupuis; May 14th, 2008 at 08:16 PM. Reason: Changed my mind.*

May 21st, 2008, 09:08 AM	#114
Paolo Ciccone Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Posts: 1,116	Deke, that's because I turned the detail all the way down. This is because almost every video camera artificially sharpens the picture by darkening the pixels in th high contrast areas. This is an artificial manipulation that can be reproduced easily in post with higher quality and changed scene-by-scene instead of being "baked" in the pixels. BTW, the artificial sharpening is also what gives the "video look" and since my aim is to create a more cinematic look I dialed the detail down. You can increase it to your liking. __________________ Paolo http://www.paolociccone.com Demo Reel

May 25th, 2008, 02:42 PM	#117
Paolo Ciccone Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Posts: 1,116	Rene, the type of lens will likely change the color response of the camera and that's another reason to get a chart and do your own calibration. It's impossible to put together a universal "recipe" that will work will every combination of optics. __________________ Paolo http://www.paolociccone.com Demo Reel

May 3rd, 2008, 03:30 PM	#107
Rene Roslev Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 49	Once again, appreciate your efforts Paolo. Just tried this preset with my SGpro 35mm adapter. Getting blown red channel very often, even with 0 color gain. Anyone else experiencing this?

May 12th, 2008, 04:52 PM	#108
Alex Plank Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 46	I also get a blue cast, even when balancing with a white card. What did you change Lou?

May 12th, 2008, 11:12 PM	#110
Alex Plank Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 46	Thanks Lou. By the way, I'm not seeing the blue tint with paolo's settings when using roughly between 3000 and 4000k lights. Is there any reason you set the sharpness to 1? (I can understand why you didn't keep it at -9 but I thought I heard someone say that a positive value for sharpness was not a good idea.) I have a waveform monitor for my XH-A1 but I don't have the DSC chart to test these results against the levels set by Paolo. (If anyone wants to send me one I'd be happy to share my results ;-). Have you done any waveform monitor tests with these new settings? From the reports in this thread, I can only guess that there are two batches of XH-A1s. I hope there aren't other inconsistencies that will limit how much dynamic range our cameras capture compared to the possibly different version Paolo tested on. Paolo, maybe you could weigh in?

May 21st, 2008, 06:27 AM	#112
Deke Ryland Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Washington, USA Posts: 213	I have a question concerning the TRUECOLOR preset. Looking at comparisons between the presets, I really like TRUECOLOR's colors, but it seems that the look is rather "soft" and it's not as sharp as say VIVIDRGB. Is this correct? If so, is there any way to make it take sharper pictures without ruining the image? Thanks for your help.

May 21st, 2008, 09:17 AM	#115
Deke Ryland Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Washington, USA Posts: 213	Thanks for the help guys! I look forward to giving it a try. I'm new to videography but have heaps of experience in image correction, so I'll be interested to see how the post turns out! Thanks again!

May 25th, 2008, 05:37 AM	#116
Rene Roslev Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 49	Regarding blown red channel when using Truecolor preset with 35mm adapters. It's not just me that messed up :) I've seen footage from other people that shows the same now. It's a very nice preset with the stock lens, but if you plan on shooting with a 35mm adapter be cautious. Even with 0 colorgain you risk clipping the red channel. Dialing in a negative value for colorgain may be a solution, but I haven't tested it myself.

May 25th, 2008, 08:55 PM	#118
Roger Shealy Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fayetteville, GA Posts: 772	Paolo, Thanks for the TrueColor preset for the A1 I really like it for outdoor scenes. I tried several of the others and felt they made the colors unrealistic. Yours does a nice job of putting things close to true and I can correct in post. I'm now limiting my CP's to Canon Factory setting, Panalook2, and TrueColor. Thanks for a great start!

June 8th, 2008, 06:31 PM	#119
Alex Plank Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 46	Been loving this preset. Here's a thread with some beach footage in California I shot using it: http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=123304

June 13th, 2008, 10:00 AM	#120
David McGiffert Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Topanga, CA Posts: 139	I just used this preset, with a few minor tweeks based on the shooting conditions, on about five hours of shooting for a documentary I'm doing and I think it's fantastic.. I just wanted to add my thanks to the many posters here, especially Paolo, who provided a wealth of information regarding how it was done. It gives me a look that I wanted but could not get for myself. Nice work. David