Cannot export edited HDV footage back to A-1 at DVinfo.net

Patrick Kwong · February 5th, 2008, 09:09 AM

My recently purchased A-1 works fine except one problem. When I try to export edited HDV footage in Premiere Pro CS3 back to A-1, it invariably suddenly stops recording after about 5 - 6 minutes. There is only a message "check HDV/DV input" on the LCD of the camera while the PC continues to export as nothing has happened. Has tried out the same on another PC with Premiere Elements 4.0. The exactly similar problem occurs. Wonders if anybody has any idea on this.

Tripp Woelfel · February 5th, 2008, 06:41 PM

I haven't tried this myself, but supposedly it cannot be done. I don't know why, but I don't think it's a supported feature. Check the manual. I think I remember seeing it stated in there.

IMO, this isn't a big deal. Taking long GOP mpeg2 from the tape, editing it (CC, transitions, etc.) then outputting to the same coded just to get it back on tape could give you bad generational degradation.

I haven't quite come to terms with how to save a high quality master. No small matter.

Patrick Kwong · February 5th, 2008, 11:35 PM

Thank you for the input.

I was assuming that the same can be done as in the case of SD (in fact I can smoothly export SD back to A-1 from Premiere).

Jonathan Shaw · February 6th, 2008, 12:33 AM

I have exported back to tape via FCP no problems at all. I remember when I used to use Premiere Pro I had a few issues when I transferred back to tape, but that was with a Sony A1.

Chris Soucy · February 6th, 2008, 12:42 AM

Sorry, that's just plain wrong.

HDV is a fully supported write - back function of the A1/ G1 cameras using the 1394 port.

If you check the manual (p. 103/ 4) it says so very clearly. Also see page 106.

You may have an issue with either the timecode (mentioned in manual) or copyright protection (also mentioned in manual).

My guess is it's a timecode problem, and you may want to change the setting on the camera to (Regen), if it is set to (Copy).

Other trip up points are a gap in the timecode due to a gap in the edited footage and from there you go into the twilight zone.

Give it another try (or 4).

CS

PS. You may well want to check your machine for "sleep mode" or other similar problems.

Whilst the transfer from camera to PC is scarilly relentless, due to the tape, the other way can be thrown by the PC not being able to do a disc read because it is going into "shutdown" or any one of a dozen other reasons.

Tripp Woelfel · February 6th, 2008, 09:20 AM

Chris, you are right and I am wrong. I checked page 106 and it does. My apologies for speaking without the benefit of knowledge.

Patrick Kwong · February 6th, 2008, 10:31 AM

THANK YOU for the advice. Will try out ASAP.

Olivier Aulnette · February 29th, 2008, 10:47 AM

Exactly the same problem.

No report, Patrick ? What about your problem ?

It's not the first time i export HD for archives.

But now Export fails

- Cables checked.
- tried with PP CS3, HDLink
- tried with another computer and cables
- tried with just acquired m2t's (HDLink) and eliminates TC gaps
- tried with just a black video timeline from CS3
- tried TC setting's as Chris mentionned
- tried with a new tape, plus a tc layered tape 50i (France)
- tried with different settings...

I wonder and suspect hardware pb with the cam...
Seems to not able to maintain HDV/DV input after 3 - 4 mn ?

Any (more) ideas ?

Petri Kaipiainen · February 29th, 2008, 12:34 PM

I have been able to write a 30 minute HDV back to HX-A1 tape form FCP, so it is not a camera issue, but could be a PC-Premiere-Camera issue which could make it very complicated to solve.

About the quality concerns expressed by Tripp; Is there any other way to output high quality HDV than writing it back to tape, no, if we want to use HDV format and not convert it to something better and keep it there after editing*. For us normal HDV users there is no other way, and as long as we have no BluRay writers, writing back to tape is the only way to distribute HDV material. And possibly writing to tape is better than BluRay, anyway.

Now, my FCP converts the material copied from tape to AIC (Apple Intermediate Codec), which is a frame based codec and takes up about 3 times more HDD space than HDV MPG2. When writing to tape it takes some 1.5x real time to first render to HDV and then again 1x real time to write the tape. But it is worth it, the quality is preserved during editing. When I used PPro 1.5 I had the Cineform coded do the same thing. There is no reason to worry about the final output, rendering to MPG2 is done only once and it looks just as good as the original.

*) of course recoding HDV to AIC or similar does not improve the quality, but only helps to preserve the quality during editing and makes editing faster.

Paul Leung · March 1st, 2008, 08:37 PM

It worked for me. I have tried successfully write a 12 minutes long video back to A1 from CS3 (winxp). Your problem might be caused by PC hardware problem.

However, my CS3 had problems preparing the footage before the actual transfer. CS3 kept crashing.... the problem was caused by the over heating of the cpu!! The problem was fixed after cleaning the cpu radiator. I also had another problem in CS3 where the export to tape option was grey out. The problem has to do with the fact that I had DV footage on the tape and the A1 was still in DV mode. I had to record some HDV footage to the tape in order to switch it back to HDV VTR mode. I hope my stupid experience would help other CS3 users!

Patrick Kwong · March 4th, 2008, 06:52 AM

After experiencing the same problem with 3 different PCs, I "concluded" that my A-1 was faulty. I sent it to Canon Hong Kong for inspection. Not unexpected, there was no problem identified. Somehow I was told there was a firmware update done on the camera before returning to me. Yet the same problem persisted.

I also discovered that there are similar reports concerning Canon HV20 in the sister forum of this website. When A-1 was away for the check-up, I purchased the newly released Sony HC-9 (a small HDV camcorder) as a "deck" for ordinary playback of footage. Somehow HC-9 works most smoothly with my PC -- both capturing into the PC and exporting back a whole hour of edited HDV back to the camera.

So for the moment, my workflow (which is obviously undesirable) is to use A-1 for shooting while all the post-processing will be done with Sony HC-9.

Taky Cheung · March 8th, 2008, 11:47 AM

It's not your A1's fault. I have the same problem with HV20. I think the problem is within Premiere.

I can successfully output full 1 hour HDV footage back to HV20 and XHA1 many times. You can try this,

Use a laptop for the export since HDV transcode is time consuming anyway. But then go to Device Manager and disabled all the USB hubs. Leave only the one that is needed (e.g. your USB mouse and keyboard). You should be able to export. It might still fail but it gives me a much higher success rate.

Do you know you can also get the HDV trancode .mpeg file as a side product? :)

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=111315

Olivier Aulnette · March 8th, 2008, 01:10 PM

Thx Patrick and other guys,
now i can consider that the cam is not faulty (i hope, my warranty will be out soon).
What i don't understand is : why export has worked fine for several monthes, and now it' faulty with no software modifications.
Unbelievable...

February 5th, 2008, 09:09 AM	#1
Patrick Kwong Tourist Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 4	Cannot export edited HDV footage back to A-1 My recently purchased A-1 works fine except one problem. When I try to export edited HDV footage in Premiere Pro CS3 back to A-1, it invariably suddenly stops recording after about 5 - 6 minutes. There is only a message "check HDV/DV input" on the LCD of the camera while the PC continues to export as nothing has happened. Has tried out the same on another PC with Premiere Elements 4.0. The exactly similar problem occurs. Wonders if anybody has any idea on this.

February 6th, 2008, 12:33 AM	#4
Jonathan Shaw Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 552	I have exported back to tape via FCP no problems at all. I remember when I used to use Premiere Pro I had a few issues when I transferred back to tape, but that was with a Sony A1. __________________ www.ginclearfilm.com www.facebook.com/ginclearfilm

February 6th, 2008, 12:42 AM	#5
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Hi guys.... Sorry, that's just plain wrong. HDV is a fully supported write - back function of the A1/ G1 cameras using the 1394 port. If you check the manual (p. 103/ 4) it says so very clearly. Also see page 106. You may have an issue with either the timecode (mentioned in manual) or copyright protection (also mentioned in manual). My guess is it's a timecode problem, and you may want to change the setting on the camera to (Regen), if it is set to (Copy). Other trip up points are a gap in the timecode due to a gap in the edited footage and from there you go into the twilight zone. Give it another try (or 4). CS PS. You may well want to check your machine for "sleep mode" or other similar problems. Whilst the transfer from camera to PC is scarilly relentless, due to the tape, the other way can be thrown by the PC not being able to do a disc read because it is going into "shutdown" or any one of a dozen other reasons. Last edited by Chris Soucy; February 6th, 2008 at 01:14 AM. Reason: Addition

February 5th, 2008, 06:41 PM	#2
Tripp Woelfel Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Conway, NH Posts: 1,745	I haven't tried this myself, but supposedly it cannot be done. I don't know why, but I don't think it's a supported feature. Check the manual. I think I remember seeing it stated in there. IMO, this isn't a big deal. Taking long GOP mpeg2 from the tape, editing it (CC, transitions, etc.) then outputting to the same coded just to get it back on tape could give you bad generational degradation. I haven't quite come to terms with how to save a high quality master. No small matter.

February 5th, 2008, 11:35 PM	#3
Patrick Kwong Tourist Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 4	Thank you for the input. I was assuming that the same can be done as in the case of SD (in fact I can smoothly export SD back to A-1 from Premiere).

February 6th, 2008, 09:20 AM	#6
Tripp Woelfel Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Conway, NH Posts: 1,745	Chris, you are right and I am wrong. I checked page 106 and it does. My apologies for speaking without the benefit of knowledge.

February 6th, 2008, 10:31 AM	#7
Patrick Kwong Tourist Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 4	THANK YOU for the advice. Will try out ASAP.

February 29th, 2008, 10:47 AM	#8
Olivier Aulnette New Boot Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: France Posts: 10	Exactly the same problem. No report, Patrick ? What about your problem ? It's not the first time i export HD for archives. But now Export fails - Cables checked. - tried with PP CS3, HDLink - tried with another computer and cables - tried with just acquired m2t's (HDLink) and eliminates TC gaps - tried with just a black video timeline from CS3 - tried TC setting's as Chris mentionned - tried with a new tape, plus a tc layered tape 50i (France) - tried with different settings... I wonder and suspect hardware pb with the cam... Seems to not able to maintain HDV/DV input after 3 - 4 mn ? Any (more) ideas ?

February 29th, 2008, 12:34 PM	#9
Petri Kaipiainen Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Espoo Finland Posts: 380	I have been able to write a 30 minute HDV back to HX-A1 tape form FCP, so it is not a camera issue, but could be a PC-Premiere-Camera issue which could make it very complicated to solve. About the quality concerns expressed by Tripp; Is there any other way to output high quality HDV than writing it back to tape, no, if we want to use HDV format and not convert it to something better and keep it there after editing. For us normal HDV users there is no other way, and as long as we have no BluRay writers, writing back to tape is the only way to distribute HDV material. And possibly writing to tape is better than BluRay, anyway. Now, my FCP converts the material copied from tape to AIC (Apple Intermediate Codec), which is a frame based codec and takes up about 3 times more HDD space than HDV MPG2. When writing to tape it takes some 1.5x real time to first render to HDV and then again 1x real time to write the tape. But it is worth it, the quality is preserved during editing. When I used PPro 1.5 I had the Cineform coded do the same thing. There is no reason to worry about the final output, rendering to MPG2 is done only once and it looks just as good as the original. ) of course recoding HDV to AIC or similar does not improve the quality, but only helps to preserve the quality during editing and makes editing faster.

March 1st, 2008, 08:37 PM	#10
Paul Leung Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 173	It worked for me. I have tried successfully write a 12 minutes long video back to A1 from CS3 (winxp). Your problem might be caused by PC hardware problem. However, my CS3 had problems preparing the footage before the actual transfer. CS3 kept crashing.... the problem was caused by the over heating of the cpu!! The problem was fixed after cleaning the cpu radiator. I also had another problem in CS3 where the export to tape option was grey out. The problem has to do with the fact that I had DV footage on the tape and the A1 was still in DV mode. I had to record some HDV footage to the tape in order to switch it back to HDV VTR mode. I hope my stupid experience would help other CS3 users!

March 4th, 2008, 06:52 AM	#11
Patrick Kwong Tourist Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 4	After experiencing the same problem with 3 different PCs, I "concluded" that my A-1 was faulty. I sent it to Canon Hong Kong for inspection. Not unexpected, there was no problem identified. Somehow I was told there was a firmware update done on the camera before returning to me. Yet the same problem persisted. I also discovered that there are similar reports concerning Canon HV20 in the sister forum of this website. When A-1 was away for the check-up, I purchased the newly released Sony HC-9 (a small HDV camcorder) as a "deck" for ordinary playback of footage. Somehow HC-9 works most smoothly with my PC -- both capturing into the PC and exporting back a whole hour of edited HDV back to the camera. So for the moment, my workflow (which is obviously undesirable) is to use A-1 for shooting while all the post-processing will be done with Sony HC-9.

March 8th, 2008, 11:47 AM	#12
Taky Cheung Inner Circle Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 2,114	It's not your A1's fault. I have the same problem with HV20. I think the problem is within Premiere. I can successfully output full 1 hour HDV footage back to HV20 and XHA1 many times. You can try this, Use a laptop for the export since HDV transcode is time consuming anyway. But then go to Device Manager and disabled all the USB hubs. Leave only the one that is needed (e.g. your USB mouse and keyboard). You should be able to export. It might still fail but it gives me a much higher success rate. Do you know you can also get the HDV trancode .mpeg file as a side product? :) http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=111315

March 8th, 2008, 01:10 PM	#13
Olivier Aulnette New Boot Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: France Posts: 10	Thx Patrick and other guys, now i can consider that the cam is not faulty (i hope, my warranty will be out soon). What i don't understand is : why export has worked fine for several monthes, and now it' faulty with no software modifications. Unbelievable...