Time code breaks on A1's at DVinfo.net

Larry Huntington · January 27th, 2008, 02:54 PM

I had 8 breaks on one tape even though it was on a panasonic AY-DVM63PQ (not an AMQ) this should not be happening with both of my A1's. I ran a tape cleaner, but this should not be happening regardless. When I had an XL2 it was bullet proof-no breaks. Any ideas on how to avoid these time code breaks? Is 24f the culprit?

Larry Huntington · January 27th, 2008, 03:01 PM

I found a recent thread about this:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=112858

I have a feeling the A1 does't jive with the PQ tapes. That is my feeling....plus I really hope the heads aren't shot, only after a few hours of recording, that would really be a bad move on Canon's part.

Larry Huntington · January 27th, 2008, 03:22 PM

I always get a time code break when I rewind the tape after recording and record over the tape in any given place. Is this normal to create a break in TC due to the mpeg GOP?

Christian Nachtrieb · January 27th, 2008, 04:38 PM

I'm worried about this being a serious issue. I just bought mine recently and haven't used mine very much, not even a whole tape's worth footage (1 drop out). But this seems like an ongoing problem. Is this going to be headache after headache with this camera?

Don Palomaki · January 27th, 2008, 05:44 PM

Christian: Not to panic. The camcorder has been out for over year, and if this were a major issue it would have surfaced in many threads by now.

Larry: What mode were you recording, and what type of time code were you using? Did you check the notes on time code on page 42-43 of the manual?

Larry Huntington · January 27th, 2008, 05:54 PM

I'm using HDV 24f non-drop frame. I'll check the manual now. Thanks.
I am also recording in record run mode. I am recording a full hour of tape on a Panasonic AMQ tape right now to see if I get drop outs.

Christian Nachtrieb · January 27th, 2008, 06:30 PM

Cool Don thanks for the reassurance..
Larry can you post an update to see if the AMQ tapes work, I'm using the AY-DVM63PQ as of now, wondering if I should stick with or upgrade. I'm going to capture a bunch of stuff tonight and see how that goes?

I've been getting used to using the VCR Stop idea to save some time on the heads.

Larry Huntington · January 27th, 2008, 07:09 PM

Will do Christian. I am capturing right now- so far no dropouts with the AMQ tape. I really would avoid the PQ's with this camera. I am awaiting a response from one of my producers who I think used the PQ's on a shoot with my cameras-and guess what...drop outs. I'll let you know if those were PQ's or AMQ's.

Christian Nachtrieb · January 27th, 2008, 07:19 PM

Thanks thats great.
I know the camera very well at this point, but I'm unfamiliar with what "drop-frame" versus "non-drop-frame" recording means? Which is better, i'm assuming non-drop?

Bill Pryor · January 27th, 2008, 08:47 PM

Neither is better than the other, and no frames are dropped. It's just a different numbering system.

Larry Huntington · January 27th, 2008, 09:55 PM

I use non-drop frame because a lot of broadcasters require non-drop frame. Drop frame is for the average producer who is not going to broadcast.

I finished the capture with the AMQ tape and there was one dropout at 1 hour and 2 minutes-meaning FCP created a new clip on it's own. I stopped recording at 1:04:00. I rewound the tape and tried to re-capture the footage again at 1:02:00, and Final Cut did not create a new clip like the first capture-all went well.
I am beginning to wonder if this is a camera issue or a final cut issue. This happened to me last week, where a new clip was created by accident (make new clip was turned off) and I rewound and recaptured and all was well-no dropped frame on tape. I had to fill in the gap with the new clip which is a major pain in the butt.
Maybe I should abandon Panasonic as a media and go with Sony. Maybe I should sell both A1's and get a new camera with no troublesome tape. I am all ears for anyone who has encumbered the same experience.

Christian Nachtrieb · January 27th, 2008, 10:49 PM

I like how it makes new clips from when you start/stop recording on the camera.. but if i wanted the option how do i turn that off in final cut?

thanks for your help by the way

Larry Huntington · January 27th, 2008, 11:01 PM

Well I don't like it when it makes new clips when the option is turned off like what happened to me today. To turn on the start stop detection, you need to select that in the capture window under (I think) "clip settings" tab.

I am thinking of trying another capture with an entire AMQ tape filled with 60i footage which I think I am going to switch to for my Africa trip. It's just going to be an easier workflow for me based on that I need to match 2 V1U's. I'll do a capture test with 60i now. I can't wait to go tapeless!

Bill Busby · January 28th, 2008, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Huntington

I use non-drop frame because a lot of broadcasters require non-drop frame. Drop frame is for the average producer who is not going to broadcast.

I believe either you have that backwards, or they do :)

Don Palomaki · January 28th, 2008, 08:01 AM

If the end result will be NTSC/60i video, folks usually use drop frame to make life easier. It accommodates the 29.97 FPS, by occasionally skipping frame numbers (not frames) to keep the time code within a frame of the actual time on a real clock. Check with your clients to see what they want if not sure.

Problem frames that move about are either a playback issue (e.g., a transient head head clog that self clears quickly - possibly due to dust in the mechanism) or an issue with the capture systems where in some background process running on the PC gobbles up too much PC clock time at once and causes a capture glitch at that time (this could be caused by anything from a virus checker to a program that is calling home to check for updates).

January 27th, 2008, 02:54 PM	#1
Larry Huntington Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Grass Valley, California Posts: 350	Time code breaks on A1's I had 8 breaks on one tape even though it was on a panasonic AY-DVM63PQ (not an AMQ) this should not be happening with both of my A1's. I ran a tape cleaner, but this should not be happening regardless. When I had an XL2 it was bullet proof-no breaks. Any ideas on how to avoid these time code breaks? Is 24f the culprit?

January 27th, 2008, 05:44 PM	#5
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,489	Christian: Not to panic. The camcorder has been out for over year, and if this were a major issue it would have surfaced in many threads by now. Larry: What mode were you recording, and what type of time code were you using? Did you check the notes on time code on page 42-43 of the manual? __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

January 28th, 2008, 08:01 AM	#15
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,489	If the end result will be NTSC/60i video, folks usually use drop frame to make life easier. It accommodates the 29.97 FPS, by occasionally skipping frame numbers (not frames) to keep the time code within a frame of the actual time on a real clock. Check with your clients to see what they want if not sure. Problem frames that move about are either a playback issue (e.g., a transient head head clog that self clears quickly - possibly due to dust in the mechanism) or an issue with the capture systems where in some background process running on the PC gobbles up too much PC clock time at once and causes a capture glitch at that time (this could be caused by anything from a virus checker to a program that is calling home to check for updates). __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

January 27th, 2008, 03:01 PM	#2
Larry Huntington Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Grass Valley, California Posts: 350	I found a recent thread about this: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=112858 I have a feeling the A1 does't jive with the PQ tapes. That is my feeling....plus I really hope the heads aren't shot, only after a few hours of recording, that would really be a bad move on Canon's part.

January 27th, 2008, 03:22 PM	#3
Larry Huntington Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Grass Valley, California Posts: 350	I always get a time code break when I rewind the tape after recording and record over the tape in any given place. Is this normal to create a break in TC due to the mpeg GOP?

January 27th, 2008, 04:38 PM	#4
Christian Nachtrieb Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 65	I'm worried about this being a serious issue. I just bought mine recently and haven't used mine very much, not even a whole tape's worth footage (1 drop out). But this seems like an ongoing problem. Is this going to be headache after headache with this camera?

January 27th, 2008, 05:54 PM	#6
Larry Huntington Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Grass Valley, California Posts: 350	I'm using HDV 24f non-drop frame. I'll check the manual now. Thanks. I am also recording in record run mode. I am recording a full hour of tape on a Panasonic AMQ tape right now to see if I get drop outs.

January 27th, 2008, 06:30 PM	#7
Christian Nachtrieb Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 65	Cool Don thanks for the reassurance.. Larry can you post an update to see if the AMQ tapes work, I'm using the AY-DVM63PQ as of now, wondering if I should stick with or upgrade. I'm going to capture a bunch of stuff tonight and see how that goes? I've been getting used to using the VCR Stop idea to save some time on the heads.

January 27th, 2008, 07:09 PM	#8
Larry Huntington Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Grass Valley, California Posts: 350	Will do Christian. I am capturing right now- so far no dropouts with the AMQ tape. I really would avoid the PQ's with this camera. I am awaiting a response from one of my producers who I think used the PQ's on a shoot with my cameras-and guess what...drop outs. I'll let you know if those were PQ's or AMQ's.

January 27th, 2008, 07:19 PM	#9
Christian Nachtrieb Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 65	Thanks thats great. I know the camera very well at this point, but I'm unfamiliar with what "drop-frame" versus "non-drop-frame" recording means? Which is better, i'm assuming non-drop?

January 27th, 2008, 08:47 PM	#10
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Neither is better than the other, and no frames are dropped. It's just a different numbering system.

January 27th, 2008, 09:55 PM	#11
Larry Huntington Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Grass Valley, California Posts: 350	I use non-drop frame because a lot of broadcasters require non-drop frame. Drop frame is for the average producer who is not going to broadcast. I finished the capture with the AMQ tape and there was one dropout at 1 hour and 2 minutes-meaning FCP created a new clip on it's own. I stopped recording at 1:04:00. I rewound the tape and tried to re-capture the footage again at 1:02:00, and Final Cut did not create a new clip like the first capture-all went well. I am beginning to wonder if this is a camera issue or a final cut issue. This happened to me last week, where a new clip was created by accident (make new clip was turned off) and I rewound and recaptured and all was well-no dropped frame on tape. I had to fill in the gap with the new clip which is a major pain in the butt. Maybe I should abandon Panasonic as a media and go with Sony. Maybe I should sell both A1's and get a new camera with no troublesome tape. I am all ears for anyone who has encumbered the same experience.

January 27th, 2008, 10:49 PM	#12
Christian Nachtrieb Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 65	I like how it makes new clips from when you start/stop recording on the camera.. but if i wanted the option how do i turn that off in final cut? thanks for your help by the way

January 27th, 2008, 11:01 PM	#13
Larry Huntington Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Grass Valley, California Posts: 350	Well I don't like it when it makes new clips when the option is turned off like what happened to me today. To turn on the start stop detection, you need to select that in the capture window under (I think) "clip settings" tab. I am thinking of trying another capture with an entire AMQ tape filled with 60i footage which I think I am going to switch to for my Africa trip. It's just going to be an easier workflow for me based on that I need to match 2 V1U's. I'll do a capture test with 60i now. I can't wait to go tapeless!