Have XHA1. Need to mix footage shot with consumer Pana minidv at DVinfo.net

Doug Rose · January 8th, 2008, 01:00 PM

I still tyring to understand the differences in formats, like 30i, 60, 24p, 24pa. I'm going to recording some footage with my xha1, and i want it to be compatable on the timeline with her consumer minidv camera. What format should I use? I know i could shoot hdv and downconvert, or just shoot sd, but what setting is best? Aside from 24p (which her camera doesn't support), should i shoot 30i, 60i or another setting I'm not aware of? Thanks.

dot.

Kellen Dengler · January 8th, 2008, 03:31 PM

How many frames per second is the footage that was shot on the other camera? If it's just a basic consumer mini dv cam I'm going to guess it was probably shot at 30 frames per sec which is standard NTSC. I would first just make sure of that, and then shoot at the same frame rate with your A1 so it all goes together nicely in the timeline.

Garrett Low · January 8th, 2008, 04:09 PM

I did a dance show last October using a borrowed Pana PVGS400 and my XH A1. I used Vegas 7 to edit. Shot both in 60i, edited on a HDV (1440x1080) 60i timeline. Rendered out to a widescreen SD DVD format. Everything worked out fine. I did set the Pana to shoot widescreen so I wouldn't have to crop anyof the footage.

I shot the XH A1 in HD so that I could go back and crop and pan if needed without much resolution loss since I knew I was going to eventually downconvert to SD for the DVD.

A lot depends on your editing system. It's been years since I worked with FCP or Premier, but Vegas does have the ability to mix frame rates and SD, HDV & HD on the same timelines. The Pana will probably shoot in 60i if it cannot do progressive so you should stick with either 60i or even 30F on the A1.

I would recommend doing a test run through of the entire workflow (shoot, edit, output to final format) to see what works best.

Doug Rose · January 8th, 2008, 08:16 PM

Thanks. The pana consumer is just a pvg 250, so it only shoots 29.7 ntsc sd. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the different camera settings. This will be edited in Permiere Pro 2.0. So you think 60i will mix well on a timeline with her footage? I agree i need to try the different formats.

If I did shoot in HDV, should I downconvert from the camera. any quick explanations on how 30, 24 and 60 settings differ from standard dv would be helpful. Thanks for the tips. I have a lot to learn.

Garrett Low · January 9th, 2008, 01:12 AM

The PVG 250 will shoot a frame rate of 29.97 which is the NTSC Standard television interlaced. The camera actually will be capturing every other line every 1/59.94th seconds then combining them to make 29.97 full frames per second.

Either set the A1 to 30F, which will actually be progressive 29.97 frames per second, or 60i, which will exactly match the PVG 250's method of capturing every other line every 1/59.94th of a second then combining to make the 29.97 frames per second.

if you do shoot the A1 in 60i remember that the field order of SD is opposite of HDV. The field order of SD is lower field first and for HDV it's upper field first. If you don't have them set correctly your video will look jumpy.

I actually prefer to convert to progressive and edit all progressive frames. You will experience some loss of resolution but it makes things simpler (don't have to worry about field order) and to me the motion looks more natural.

I would not downconvert the HDV footage until you render (I'm not sure if Premiere Pro will let you have mixed footage) if your softwar will allow that. If you keep the HD footage you can crop with less loss of res.

SD can be 24 progressive frames/second, 30 progressive frames/second, or 60 interlaced frames/second, just as HDV can be. For that matter both SD and HDV can be any frame rate, The SD really relates to the size of the image, 720 pixels x 480 pixels for 4:3 and 853 x 480 for 16:9 (widescreen). HD will be 1920 x1080 and as saved to an HDV format will be 1440 x 1080. HD is only widescreen format and the HDV algorithm uses non square pixels so that in the end the 1440 gets stretched to fill the same space as 1920 pixels.

So in the end it is good to try to get the frame rates to be the same or at least an even multiplier of each other. There are programs that convert 24p, 30p and 60i. 24 progressive frames per second is what film movies are shot at and what you see on your conventional TV is 60 interlaced frames.

January 8th, 2008, 01:00 PM	#1
Doug Rose Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Traverse City, MI Posts: 29	Have XHA1. Need to mix footage shot with consumer Pana minidv I still tyring to understand the differences in formats, like 30i, 60, 24p, 24pa. I'm going to recording some footage with my xha1, and i want it to be compatable on the timeline with her consumer minidv camera. What format should I use? I know i could shoot hdv and downconvert, or just shoot sd, but what setting is best? Aside from 24p (which her camera doesn't support), should i shoot 30i, 60i or another setting I'm not aware of? Thanks. dot.

January 8th, 2008, 03:31 PM	#2
Kellen Dengler Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New York, NY Posts: 118	How many frames per second is the footage that was shot on the other camera? If it's just a basic consumer mini dv cam I'm going to guess it was probably shot at 30 frames per sec which is standard NTSC. I would first just make sure of that, and then shoot at the same frame rate with your A1 so it all goes together nicely in the timeline.

January 8th, 2008, 04:09 PM	#3
Garrett Low Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 1,774	I did a dance show last October using a borrowed Pana PVGS400 and my XH A1. I used Vegas 7 to edit. Shot both in 60i, edited on a HDV (1440x1080) 60i timeline. Rendered out to a widescreen SD DVD format. Everything worked out fine. I did set the Pana to shoot widescreen so I wouldn't have to crop anyof the footage. I shot the XH A1 in HD so that I could go back and crop and pan if needed without much resolution loss since I knew I was going to eventually downconvert to SD for the DVD. A lot depends on your editing system. It's been years since I worked with FCP or Premier, but Vegas does have the ability to mix frame rates and SD, HDV & HD on the same timelines. The Pana will probably shoot in 60i if it cannot do progressive so you should stick with either 60i or even 30F on the A1. I would recommend doing a test run through of the entire workflow (shoot, edit, output to final format) to see what works best.

January 8th, 2008, 08:16 PM	#4
Doug Rose Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Traverse City, MI Posts: 29	Thanks. The pana consumer is just a pvg 250, so it only shoots 29.7 ntsc sd. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the different camera settings. This will be edited in Permiere Pro 2.0. So you think 60i will mix well on a timeline with her footage? I agree i need to try the different formats. If I did shoot in HDV, should I downconvert from the camera. any quick explanations on how 30, 24 and 60 settings differ from standard dv would be helpful. Thanks for the tips. I have a lot to learn.

January 9th, 2008, 01:12 AM	#5
Garrett Low Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 1,774	The PVG 250 will shoot a frame rate of 29.97 which is the NTSC Standard television interlaced. The camera actually will be capturing every other line every 1/59.94th seconds then combining them to make 29.97 full frames per second. Either set the A1 to 30F, which will actually be progressive 29.97 frames per second, or 60i, which will exactly match the PVG 250's method of capturing every other line every 1/59.94th of a second then combining to make the 29.97 frames per second. if you do shoot the A1 in 60i remember that the field order of SD is opposite of HDV. The field order of SD is lower field first and for HDV it's upper field first. If you don't have them set correctly your video will look jumpy. I actually prefer to convert to progressive and edit all progressive frames. You will experience some loss of resolution but it makes things simpler (don't have to worry about field order) and to me the motion looks more natural. I would not downconvert the HDV footage until you render (I'm not sure if Premiere Pro will let you have mixed footage) if your softwar will allow that. If you keep the HD footage you can crop with less loss of res. SD can be 24 progressive frames/second, 30 progressive frames/second, or 60 interlaced frames/second, just as HDV can be. For that matter both SD and HDV can be any frame rate, The SD really relates to the size of the image, 720 pixels x 480 pixels for 4:3 and 853 x 480 for 16:9 (widescreen). HD will be 1920 x1080 and as saved to an HDV format will be 1440 x 1080. HD is only widescreen format and the HDV algorithm uses non square pixels so that in the end the 1440 gets stretched to fill the same space as 1920 pixels. So in the end it is good to try to get the frame rates to be the same or at least an even multiplier of each other. There are programs that convert 24p, 30p and 60i. 24 progressive frames per second is what film movies are shot at and what you see on your conventional TV is 60 interlaced frames.