Anyone use an HV20 and A1? at DVinfo.net

Stephen M. Kessinger · December 5th, 2007, 06:59 PM

I have an A1 now and was thinking of investing in an HV20 as a second camera and use both on shoots, has any one used both? How do they compare color wise?

Also, I am editing in Final Cut Pro Studio, is there anyway I can preview my work will editing on an HD monitor using the HV20 as a converter via firewire, but will I get an HDMI output this way for an external monitor??

I'm trying to figure out a way to preview my edits on an HD monitor, my Canopus ADVC-300 can't handle HD so wondering if I can use an HV20 to convert or if anyone knows another converter I could use....

Thanx!

Randy Panado · December 5th, 2007, 10:55 PM

I have both and used both for a shoot.

HV20 is more saturated in my situation. I'm not too good at color correction in post so I just had to live with two different colors.

If I would have had more light it would have come out more even. I had to brighten up my image so that threw off a few things also.

My A1 had the VividRGB setting.

Shiv Kumar · December 5th, 2007, 11:30 PM

Stephen,

I use the A1 and HV20 together sometimes. My HV20 is primarily used as a deck and to playback demo reels displayed on an HD Monitor at client locations.

I find the colors of the HV20 to be prerry good out of the box, however, color comparisions depend largely on the setting of the A1 since you could go all over the place with that on the A1. Personally, I use the A1 with the factory preset and simply bump up the levels/curves in post. In that situation, matching the color of the two cameras is pretty easy. However, please note that I've not done any extensive/technical color comparisions or anything.

I'm not sure I understand the next question correctly and nor do I use FCP so I won't attempt it :).

Dirk Bouwen · December 6th, 2007, 12:36 PM

I use both A1 and HV20, and it's is certainly possible to combine them.

There is a lot of similarity, though we shouldn't exagerate and state that the HV20 is just a mini-A1.

I agree that the out of the box setting of the HV20 is surprisingly good, but tends more to the 'vivid' like colour setting of the A1. Certainly the reds are very different. The A1 is much milder in this respect than the HV20, in the HV20 red is really... 'red'.

I also compaired the sharpness, but I've some difficulty to describe the difference in words: the A1 is somewhat more refined in finer details (f.i. close-up of textures of fabric) then the HV20, but again: the result is really astonishing for such a small device.

Low light is the biggest difference. Coming from the Sony PD/VX family, I'm not so excited by any HDV's performance, and it really took me a while to accept the behavior of the A1 in this respect, but HV20 is showing a lot more noise in low light situation. I'm affraid that footage will easily lose it's overall exploitability when you try to shoot in dimmed lighting.

It is also not difficult to see that the lens and abberation is quite different between both cams: this justifies the most why an A1 remains an A1 and the HV20 is 'only' an HV20. The wide angles are feeling a 'bit cheap' to me (probably a real 'pro' would say the same of the A1 as well, compared to highly specialized video or film lens), but this ofcourse is not unusual in this price class, you cannot expect the impossible for your money.

Nevertheless, I can tell you one thing: if you would only some years ago anyone have shown HV20-footage, noone wouldn't believe you if you told them it came out of this size of camera. It's a very enjoyable piece of technology.

Taky Cheung · December 7th, 2007, 02:36 PM

I'm also using both XH-A1 and HV20. I found the color is very different especially in Red. HV20's red is more orange like and A1's red is more purple-ish. HV20 also not as good in low light too.

I wish there is a A1 preset that match the color of Hv20. That will save me a lot of time in tweaking in post.

Best case will be using 2 A1 and use HV20 as a playback deck.

Even Solberg · December 7th, 2007, 06:55 PM

Ditto on the HV20 lookalike preset. I'd love to see that.

Denny Kyser · December 8th, 2007, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Even Solberg

Ditto on the HV20 lookalike preset. I'd love to see that.

This would be fantastic, and I am guessing it could be done, sorry guys, I am no way good enough to do it though. :)

Taky Cheung · December 8th, 2007, 11:41 AM

Hopefully some "preset expert" on this forum can read this and help us making a preset for XH-A1 that matches the color of HV20. ANYBODY OUT THEREEEEEEEEEE?

:-)

Salar Ghazi · December 17th, 2007, 04:33 AM

A HV20 can be used for playing back tapes shot on the A1/H1, also 25F recordings? This question was already answered somehow, but did anyone experience misalignments?
I intend to buy a HV20 and to use it as a deck for logging/editing but if playing back on another transport generates more dropouts, it will not be worth the effort...
Does anyone know if both Cams A1 and HV20 share the same transport?
All the best,
Sal

Charles Papert · December 17th, 2007, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen M. Kessinger

Also, I am editing in Final Cut Pro Studio, is there anyway I can preview my work will editing on an HD monitor using the HV20 as a converter via firewire, but will I get an HDMI output this way for an external monitor??

The HDV signal doesn't get passed back into the camera via Firewire. You can get the Blackmagic Intensity Pro card with HDMI ins and outs (also a great way to ingest your HV20A1 footage as ProRes422 with real-time conversion).

Taky Cheung · December 17th, 2007, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salar Ghazi

A HV20 can be used for playing back tapes shot on the A1/H1, also 25F recordings? This question was already answered somehow, but did anyone experience misalignments?
I intend to buy a HV20 and to use it as a deck for logging/editing but if playing back on another transport generates more dropouts, it will not be worth the effort...
Does anyone know if both Cams A1 and HV20 share the same transport?
All the best,
Sal

That's what I have been doing. In NTSC land, my HV20 is used as playback deck. It can playback all 60i, 24F and 30F footage recorded from the A1.

Garrett Low · December 17th, 2007, 11:13 AM

Hi Stephen,

I just got an HV20 in to try to use for wide shots while I use my A1 to follow close ups of stage shows. I've been getting use to it and I did do a comparison and there are noticable differences between the HV20 out of the box and the A1 (I useually use eithe the VividRGB with a tweak to lower reds or the PANALOOK presets shot in 24F). I was going to play with trying to tweek the HV20's color saturation setting to see if I can get a more neurtral look that is easier to fix in post.

I'm really interested to see what others have done to get a better match between the two. I usually use my wide shots for short durations during either transitions or to give the viewer some spacial perspective so it isn't that critical. Also, since the angles and feel is so different I find that I dont' have to have a perfect color match so thtat the transistions to look to strange.

Taky Cheung · December 17th, 2007, 06:50 PM

I tried to match the clips from XHa1 and Hv20. Here's my best effort :) Someday I can do better.. just need more practice.

The 3 screen shots attached, one is from XHa1, two same shot from HV20 with and without color corrected.

Ian G. Thompson · December 17th, 2007, 09:12 PM

Getting close Taky...the A1's red is a bit bolder though.

Taky Cheung · December 17th, 2007, 09:13 PM

I know I know. It's just very difficult to make it closely matched. Red is very difficult to get it right.. the killing part is the big red backdrop in the back. :(

December 5th, 2007, 06:59 PM	#1
Stephen M. Kessinger Tourist Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1	Anyone use an HV20 and A1? I have an A1 now and was thinking of investing in an HV20 as a second camera and use both on shoots, has any one used both? How do they compare color wise? Also, I am editing in Final Cut Pro Studio, is there anyway I can preview my work will editing on an HD monitor using the HV20 as a converter via firewire, but will I get an HDMI output this way for an external monitor?? I'm trying to figure out a way to preview my edits on an HD monitor, my Canopus ADVC-300 can't handle HD so wondering if I can use an HV20 to convert or if anyone knows another converter I could use.... Thanx!

December 5th, 2007, 11:30 PM	#3
Shiv Kumar Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gainesville, VA, USA Posts: 327	Stephen, I use the A1 and HV20 together sometimes. My HV20 is primarily used as a deck and to playback demo reels displayed on an HD Monitor at client locations. I find the colors of the HV20 to be prerry good out of the box, however, color comparisions depend largely on the setting of the A1 since you could go all over the place with that on the A1. Personally, I use the A1 with the factory preset and simply bump up the levels/curves in post. In that situation, matching the color of the two cameras is pretty easy. However, please note that I've not done any extensive/technical color comparisions or anything. I'm not sure I understand the next question correctly and nor do I use FCP so I won't attempt it :). __________________ Canon XH-A1, Libec LS-55M, Letus Extreme, Steadicam Merlin, PPro CS3

December 7th, 2007, 06:55 PM	#6
Even Solberg Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 106	Ditto on the HV20 lookalike preset. I'd love to see that. __________________ "Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night." -- Edgar Allan Poe

December 17th, 2007, 06:50 PM	#13
Taky Cheung Inner Circle Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 2,114	I tried to match the clips from XHa1 and Hv20. Here's my best effort :) Someday I can do better.. just need more practice. The 3 screen shots attached, one is from XHa1, two same shot from HV20 with and without color corrected. Attached Thumbnails

December 5th, 2007, 10:55 PM	#2
Randy Panado Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 643	I have both and used both for a shoot. HV20 is more saturated in my situation. I'm not too good at color correction in post so I just had to live with two different colors. If I would have had more light it would have come out more even. I had to brighten up my image so that threw off a few things also. My A1 had the VividRGB setting.

December 6th, 2007, 12:36 PM	#4
Dirk Bouwen Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: AC, Belgium Posts: 75	I use both A1 and HV20, and it's is certainly possible to combine them. There is a lot of similarity, though we shouldn't exagerate and state that the HV20 is just a mini-A1. I agree that the out of the box setting of the HV20 is surprisingly good, but tends more to the 'vivid' like colour setting of the A1. Certainly the reds are very different. The A1 is much milder in this respect than the HV20, in the HV20 red is really... 'red'. I also compaired the sharpness, but I've some difficulty to describe the difference in words: the A1 is somewhat more refined in finer details (f.i. close-up of textures of fabric) then the HV20, but again: the result is really astonishing for such a small device. Low light is the biggest difference. Coming from the Sony PD/VX family, I'm not so excited by any HDV's performance, and it really took me a while to accept the behavior of the A1 in this respect, but HV20 is showing a lot more noise in low light situation. I'm affraid that footage will easily lose it's overall exploitability when you try to shoot in dimmed lighting. It is also not difficult to see that the lens and abberation is quite different between both cams: this justifies the most why an A1 remains an A1 and the HV20 is 'only' an HV20. The wide angles are feeling a 'bit cheap' to me (probably a real 'pro' would say the same of the A1 as well, compared to highly specialized video or film lens), but this ofcourse is not unusual in this price class, you cannot expect the impossible for your money. Nevertheless, I can tell you one thing: if you would only some years ago anyone have shown HV20-footage, noone wouldn't believe you if you told them it came out of this size of camera. It's a very enjoyable piece of technology.

December 7th, 2007, 02:36 PM	#5
Taky Cheung Inner Circle Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 2,114	I'm also using both XH-A1 and HV20. I found the color is very different especially in Red. HV20's red is more orange like and A1's red is more purple-ish. HV20 also not as good in low light too. I wish there is a A1 preset that match the color of Hv20. That will save me a lot of time in tweaking in post. Best case will be using 2 A1 and use HV20 as a playback deck.

December 8th, 2007, 11:41 AM	#8
Taky Cheung Inner Circle Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 2,114	Hopefully some "preset expert" on this forum can read this and help us making a preset for XH-A1 that matches the color of HV20. ANYBODY OUT THEREEEEEEEEEE? :-)

December 17th, 2007, 04:33 AM	#9
Salar Ghazi New Boot Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 20	A HV20 can be used for playing back tapes shot on the A1/H1, also 25F recordings? This question was already answered somehow, but did anyone experience misalignments? I intend to buy a HV20 and to use it as a deck for logging/editing but if playing back on another transport generates more dropouts, it will not be worth the effort... Does anyone know if both Cams A1 and HV20 share the same transport? All the best, Sal

December 17th, 2007, 11:13 AM	#12
Garrett Low Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 1,774	Hi Stephen, I just got an HV20 in to try to use for wide shots while I use my A1 to follow close ups of stage shows. I've been getting use to it and I did do a comparison and there are noticable differences between the HV20 out of the box and the A1 (I useually use eithe the VividRGB with a tweak to lower reds or the PANALOOK presets shot in 24F). I was going to play with trying to tweek the HV20's color saturation setting to see if I can get a more neurtral look that is easier to fix in post. I'm really interested to see what others have done to get a better match between the two. I usually use my wide shots for short durations during either transitions or to give the viewer some spacial perspective so it isn't that critical. Also, since the angles and feel is so different I find that I dont' have to have a perfect color match so thtat the transistions to look to strange.

December 17th, 2007, 09:12 PM	#14
Ian G. Thompson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Rockledge, Florida Posts: 351	Getting close Taky...the A1's red is a bit bolder though.

December 17th, 2007, 09:13 PM	#15
Taky Cheung Inner Circle Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 2,114	I know I know. It's just very difficult to make it closely matched. Red is very difficult to get it right.. the killing part is the big red backdrop in the back. :(