NTSC / PAL /1080i / 50i (LCD HDTV) please explain if you can

Shawn Levin · October 27th, 2007, 10:49 AM

Hi All..... I'm looking for a good HD LCD TV for my A1 HD footage

(I posted before, but not much response !)

I live in PAL land (South Africa)
Full HD LCD's are extremely expensive here and I have decided to purchase
a new model Sony Bravia 1920 x 1080 LCD HDTV (KDL 40v3000) and ship it here.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...0p_BRAVIA.html

My main use for the screen is previewing HDV footage from a CANON XH-A1

I know KDL 40V3000 is an NTSC unit BUT..... NTSC/PAL has been replaced by interlaced/progressive, so besides the tuner, what makes this LCD compatible with other sources?

I understand the NTSC tuner will not work here (which is ok)
voltage is not an issue - 110-240v works fine with KDL 40V3000

QUESTION:
1- will 1080i (filmed as 50i - not 60i) playback through HDMI or component ?
2 - will 576i playback ? (or will it display in 480i mode)
3 - how would I need to play DVD's (PAL)

are there any other considerations or issues to consider ?

Your help is hugely appreciated.
Shawn

Chris Soucy · October 27th, 2007, 02:25 PM

In order:

1. Yes

2. No (not according to published specs)

3. With difficulty if it doesn't play 576 line material (according to published spec's).

May I elaborate on my response to your original post?

First, may I ask a question?

Have you checked with Customs SA to find out what import duty/ tax/ sales tax etc is payable on an imported telly?

There is probably a reason these things are so expensive in SA and that's going to be one of them. Just ensure that the original purchase cost (wherever you eventually buy it) + shipping + insurance + import duty + sales tax etc (if applicable) doesn't exceed the purchase price if bought actually in SA from a reputable dealer.

OK, with that out of the way, if you check out the B&H site for that unit, you will note it only mentions that set displaying 480i/p at SD resolution. If true I don't think it will display PAL content (as I said in my previous post, most NTSC equipment will not play PAL, most PAL equipment will play NTSC).

My suggestion to you is this:

Post an enquiry for a DVinfo member in Singapore who can give you the name and contact details for a reputable dealer there, and import a PAL unit. As I said, the tuner will probably not work correctly (due to different audio offsets) but it will at least be able to display PAL material from any PAL device. It will also probably display NTSC material for the reasons stated above (who knows, they may be able to source a PAL unit with the correct audio offsets for SA).

A further suggestion is to buy a unit in SA from a reputable dealer. The chances of getting a TV shipped from wherever to SA in one piece with all systems functional is, well, not a risk I would take. If bought in SA at least if it's dead out of the box you can get it replaced. If bought from B&H it's not as if you can just pop it into an envelope and post it back.

CS

Shawn Levin · October 27th, 2007, 02:44 PM

Thanks Chris.....

I do appreciate your response (and your previous one too).

I had heard some mixed technical reports, so decided to post here again.

The LCD is still much cheaper here EVEN after shipping, taxes and duties.
I did do some searching, but couldn't manage to find a reputable reseller in the far east. (you idea about posting for a singapore member is a good one).

Also some of the models seem to advertise some conflicting information on the supported rates and formats.

You could be right, even at the huge expense, it might be better to buy one here..... the sony 'x' series HDTV I looked at is about R36 000.00 ($5400) - crazy!

Well..... back to the drawing board.
Thanks again Chris.

Shawn

Chris Soucy · October 27th, 2007, 03:50 PM

My Sony X series 46" cost $7,200 bucks NZ. My credit card sulked for a fortnight!

CS

Shawn Levin · October 27th, 2007, 04:03 PM

The thing is...... I was 1st considering a 1366 x 768 LCD....
Took my A1 to the store and plugged it in - it looked pretty good, but as I looked at more and more expensive models (and of course higher res)
I realised that if I'm using it for previewing HDV, I've got to get top notch stuff.... the cheaper LCD TV's look flat, blacks=dull and noise=more.

The Sony x series looks superb..... but soooo expensive.
It has left me confused at how much to budget for one....

The funny thing is - a better screen isn't gonna pay the bills... and the price is dropping quite fast too.

I was even considering just getting a little 19" for the moment (I would also like this for corporate shoots where focus could be critical and portability isn't really an issue) (this only reminds me of the HUGE cost of portable battery powered HD LCD field monitors)

Chris.... before you coughed up all that dough for the sony... did you go through similar thinking - about getting a cheaper one ?

Shawn

Chris Soucy · October 27th, 2007, 04:35 PM

I started with a Dell 24" 1920 X 1200 screen for my new PC last year, and loved it.

HOWEVER, it was obvious I wasn't going to get anything near correct colour no matter what I did with it, so started looking at what was available. I didn't look at lower resolution units as figured that was just going backwards, the question was, just what was I prepared to cough for a screen?

As my old granpappy used to say "Buy the best and you'll never regret it. Buy cheap and you will, every day".

The choice then was: Do I cough $7200 for the best available (at the time) or wait for something better & cheaper.

I figured the latter was an infinite do nothing game so plumped for the 7200. I have not regretted it for a second. Every time I fire it up with footage from my A1/ HV20 it just blows me away.

Every visitor who's had the "HD experience" just sits there stunned and spell bound.

CS

Shawn Levin · October 27th, 2007, 04:55 PM

Thanks for that......
I figure I need some inspiration..... and then some, to get me fired up to justify spending that kinda money to buy 'the best'.
I have only been using my A1 in SD mode so far.... so the LCD will be my inspiration to work in HD. (seeing that HD footage is inspiring !)
It will be my 1st step (before I do the PC upgrade (still considering mac vs PC))
Seems out of place spending more on an LCD than on my A1 itself.

Shawn

Carl Mischke · October 28th, 2007, 08:24 AM

Hi, Shawn
Good luck with bringing that beautiful TV in from the US (or anywhere else for that matter). While I haven't imported anything of that scale, I have brought in one or two smaller electronic or camera-related items. I brought in a Spiderbrace for my A1 a while ago, and had endless to-ing and fro-ing with customs. They simply could not understand what it was for, and I actually had to go there and put it together, put the camera on and show them.
The other item arrived broken. The local branch of the *incredibly efficient courier service* claimed that they had no knowledge of any shaking or rattling or any bumps etc etc.
I gave up after three weeks of aggravation.
Also bear in mind that there are customs surcharges for certain items (clothing, for example, is at 40% right now, I don't know what the current rate is for electronics). There are also limits as to the number of shipments and the value of shipments you can bring into the country as a private individual.
I saw a local advertisement for a full HD Philips (1080p) up here at R25000. Not quite the same as the Bravia, but ... At this stage, fortunately, I'm anti-gadget (if I have to plug in one more piece of equipment, I'll throw a fit they're going to hear on the International Space Station), so I'm not even vaguely tempted.
If you know anyone in the import-export business, or contact a company who imports on a regular basis, perhaps they can help. I'm wanting to bring in a small HD monitor myself, but I'm not sure that I'm up to that challenge right now.
I also made the switch to Mac a few months back. But that is another story altogether...

Carl,
Jo'burg

Chris Soucy · October 28th, 2007, 03:42 PM

"Seems out of place spending more on a LCD than on my A1 itself"

Thinking about it, the A1 and the Sony Bravia worked out at exactly the same price - $7200 NZ.

This must be some industry standard magic figure - my new Vinten FibreTech tripod and Vision 3 head have also worked out at........yep, $7200 NZ!!!

It's a giant conspiracy!

(And this is one expensive "hobby").

CS

Shawn Levin · October 28th, 2007, 06:11 PM

Chris.... that is woth a laugh, you could be right, some people working on some psycho-neural-techno algorythms..... setting up some kind of harmonic resonance to justify the price of certain camera accessories being equivalent to that of the A1.
Let me see..... my 2nd hand Hyndai Elantra cost about the same price ( I know that sort of comes from Korea - does it still count)

perhaps we should start a new thread - ACCESSORIES THAT COST AT LEAST AS MUCH AS YOUR CAMERA.

Seriously though.... thanks for your input, after hearing about some 'clouding' fix problems with that new Sony LCD and the possible 'stress' & risk involved I think I will just accept that this country is special in its own way, and that just ISN't the price of Full HD LCD's !

CARL - Thanks for your advice, I have seen a Phillips Full HD at Hi-Fi Corporation for R19 999 .00 - but it just doesn't look like a Sony - for me anyway.

I think I will buy a small 19" LCD TV and wait it out till I can justify the cost here in S.A.

Carl, would also like to hear more about moving over from PC > Mac.
Are you editing HD from your A1... perhaps we can talk on the phone.
I don't know too many A1 users down here.

Thanks guys
SL

Carl Mischke · October 29th, 2007, 09:49 PM

Shawn
I'll be happy to share some of my experiences of moving from PC to Mac for video with you. The normal rules apply: make sure that you buy what you really need (never mind the cost) and then brace yourself.
I know hardly any other A1 shooters down here --- there are a couple of people in Cape Town, as far as I can recall, but virtually no-one in Jo'burg. At least that I know of.
If you want to chat, just private message me.

Carl
Jo'burg

October 27th, 2007, 10:49 AM	#1
Shawn Levin Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: CAPE TOWN - SOUTH AFRICA Posts: 58	NTSC / PAL /1080i / 50i (LCD HDTV) please explain if you can - before I purchase Hi All..... I'm looking for a good HD LCD TV for my A1 HD footage (I posted before, but not much response !) I live in PAL land (South Africa) Full HD LCD's are extremely expensive here and I have decided to purchase a new model Sony Bravia 1920 x 1080 LCD HDTV (KDL 40v3000) and ship it here. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...0p_BRAVIA.html My main use for the screen is previewing HDV footage from a CANON XH-A1 I know KDL 40V3000 is an NTSC unit BUT..... NTSC/PAL has been replaced by interlaced/progressive, so besides the tuner, what makes this LCD compatible with other sources? I understand the NTSC tuner will not work here (which is ok) voltage is not an issue - 110-240v works fine with KDL 40V3000 QUESTION: 1- will 1080i (filmed as 50i - not 60i) playback through HDMI or component ? 2 - will 576i playback ? (or will it display in 480i mode) 3 - how would I need to play DVD's (PAL) are there any other considerations or issues to consider ? Your help is hugely appreciated. Shawn

October 27th, 2007, 02:25 PM	#2
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,689 Images: 18	Hi Shawn.......(again). In order: 1. Yes 2. No (not according to published specs) 3. With difficulty if it doesn't play 576 line material (according to published spec's). May I elaborate on my response to your original post? First, may I ask a question? Have you checked with Customs SA to find out what import duty/ tax/ sales tax etc is payable on an imported telly? There is probably a reason these things are so expensive in SA and that's going to be one of them. Just ensure that the original purchase cost (wherever you eventually buy it) + shipping + insurance + import duty + sales tax etc (if applicable) doesn't exceed the purchase price if bought actually in SA from a reputable dealer. OK, with that out of the way, if you check out the B&H site for that unit, you will note it only mentions that set displaying 480i/p at SD resolution. If true I don't think it will display PAL content (as I said in my previous post, most NTSC equipment will not play PAL, most PAL equipment will play NTSC). My suggestion to you is this: Post an enquiry for a DVinfo member in Singapore who can give you the name and contact details for a reputable dealer there, and import a PAL unit. As I said, the tuner will probably not work correctly (due to different audio offsets) but it will at least be able to display PAL material from any PAL device. It will also probably display NTSC material for the reasons stated above (who knows, they may be able to source a PAL unit with the correct audio offsets for SA). A further suggestion is to buy a unit in SA from a reputable dealer. The chances of getting a TV shipped from wherever to SA in one piece with all systems functional is, well, not a risk I would take. If bought in SA at least if it's dead out of the box you can get it replaced. If bought from B&H it's not as if you can just pop it into an envelope and post it back. CS

October 27th, 2007, 03:50 PM	#4
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,689 Images: 18	You think that's bad? My Sony X series 46" cost $7,200 bucks NZ. My credit card sulked for a fortnight! CS

October 27th, 2007, 04:35 PM	#6
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,689 Images: 18	Yep............. I started with a Dell 24" 1920 X 1200 screen for my new PC last year, and loved it. HOWEVER, it was obvious I wasn't going to get anything near correct colour no matter what I did with it, so started looking at what was available. I didn't look at lower resolution units as figured that was just going backwards, the question was, just what was I prepared to cough for a screen? As my old granpappy used to say "Buy the best and you'll never regret it. Buy cheap and you will, every day". The choice then was: Do I cough $7200 for the best available (at the time) or wait for something better & cheaper. I figured the latter was an infinite do nothing game so plumped for the 7200. I have not regretted it for a second. Every time I fire it up with footage from my A1/ HV20 it just blows me away. Every visitor who's had the "HD experience" just sits there stunned and spell bound. CS

October 28th, 2007, 08:24 AM	#8
Carl Mischke Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa Posts: 26	Good luck Hi, Shawn Good luck with bringing that beautiful TV in from the US (or anywhere else for that matter). While I haven't imported anything of that scale, I have brought in one or two smaller electronic or camera-related items. I brought in a Spiderbrace for my A1 a while ago, and had endless to-ing and fro-ing with customs. They simply could not understand what it was for, and I actually had to go there and put it together, put the camera on and show them. The other item arrived broken. The local branch of the incredibly efficient courier service claimed that they had no knowledge of any shaking or rattling or any bumps etc etc. I gave up after three weeks of aggravation. Also bear in mind that there are customs surcharges for certain items (clothing, for example, is at 40% right now, I don't know what the current rate is for electronics). There are also limits as to the number of shipments and the value of shipments you can bring into the country as a private individual. I saw a local advertisement for a full HD Philips (1080p) up here at R25000. Not quite the same as the Bravia, but ... At this stage, fortunately, I'm anti-gadget (if I have to plug in one more piece of equipment, I'll throw a fit they're going to hear on the International Space Station), so I'm not even vaguely tempted. If you know anyone in the import-export business, or contact a company who imports on a regular basis, perhaps they can help. I'm wanting to bring in a small HD monitor myself, but I'm not sure that I'm up to that challenge right now. I also made the switch to Mac a few months back. But that is another story altogether... Carl, Jo'burg

October 27th, 2007, 02:44 PM	#3
Shawn Levin Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: CAPE TOWN - SOUTH AFRICA Posts: 58	Thanks Chris..... I do appreciate your response (and your previous one too). I had heard some mixed technical reports, so decided to post here again. The LCD is still much cheaper here EVEN after shipping, taxes and duties. I did do some searching, but couldn't manage to find a reputable reseller in the far east. (you idea about posting for a singapore member is a good one). Also some of the models seem to advertise some conflicting information on the supported rates and formats. You could be right, even at the huge expense, it might be better to buy one here..... the sony 'x' series HDTV I looked at is about R36 000.00 ($5400) - crazy! Well..... back to the drawing board. Thanks again Chris. Shawn

October 27th, 2007, 04:03 PM	#5
Shawn Levin Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: CAPE TOWN - SOUTH AFRICA Posts: 58	The thing is...... I was 1st considering a 1366 x 768 LCD.... Took my A1 to the store and plugged it in - it looked pretty good, but as I looked at more and more expensive models (and of course higher res) I realised that if I'm using it for previewing HDV, I've got to get top notch stuff.... the cheaper LCD TV's look flat, blacks=dull and noise=more. The Sony x series looks superb..... but soooo expensive. It has left me confused at how much to budget for one.... The funny thing is - a better screen isn't gonna pay the bills... and the price is dropping quite fast too. I was even considering just getting a little 19" for the moment (I would also like this for corporate shoots where focus could be critical and portability isn't really an issue) (this only reminds me of the HUGE cost of portable battery powered HD LCD field monitors) Chris.... before you coughed up all that dough for the sony... did you go through similar thinking - about getting a cheaper one ? Shawn

October 27th, 2007, 04:55 PM	#7
Shawn Levin Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: CAPE TOWN - SOUTH AFRICA Posts: 58	Thanks for that...... I figure I need some inspiration..... and then some, to get me fired up to justify spending that kinda money to buy 'the best'. I have only been using my A1 in SD mode so far.... so the LCD will be my inspiration to work in HD. (seeing that HD footage is inspiring !) It will be my 1st step (before I do the PC upgrade (still considering mac vs PC)) Seems out of place spending more on an LCD than on my A1 itself. Shawn

October 28th, 2007, 03:42 PM	#9
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,689 Images: 18	Shawn..... "Seems out of place spending more on a LCD than on my A1 itself" Thinking about it, the A1 and the Sony Bravia worked out at exactly the same price - $7200 NZ. This must be some industry standard magic figure - my new Vinten FibreTech tripod and Vision 3 head have also worked out at........yep, $7200 NZ!!! It's a giant conspiracy! (And this is one expensive "hobby"). CS

October 28th, 2007, 06:11 PM	#10
Shawn Levin Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: CAPE TOWN - SOUTH AFRICA Posts: 58	Chris.... that is woth a laugh, you could be right, some people working on some psycho-neural-techno algorythms..... setting up some kind of harmonic resonance to justify the price of certain camera accessories being equivalent to that of the A1. Let me see..... my 2nd hand Hyndai Elantra cost about the same price ( I know that sort of comes from Korea - does it still count) perhaps we should start a new thread - ACCESSORIES THAT COST AT LEAST AS MUCH AS YOUR CAMERA. Seriously though.... thanks for your input, after hearing about some 'clouding' fix problems with that new Sony LCD and the possible 'stress' & risk involved I think I will just accept that this country is special in its own way, and that just ISN't the price of Full HD LCD's ! CARL - Thanks for your advice, I have seen a Phillips Full HD at Hi-Fi Corporation for R19 999 .00 - but it just doesn't look like a Sony - for me anyway. I think I will buy a small 19" LCD TV and wait it out till I can justify the cost here in S.A. Carl, would also like to hear more about moving over from PC > Mac. Are you editing HD from your A1... perhaps we can talk on the phone. I don't know too many A1 users down here. Thanks guys SL

October 29th, 2007, 09:49 PM	#11
Carl Mischke Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa Posts: 26	Moving from PC to Mac Shawn I'll be happy to share some of my experiences of moving from PC to Mac for video with you. The normal rules apply: make sure that you buy what you really need (never mind the cost) and then brace yourself. I know hardly any other A1 shooters down here --- there are a couple of people in Cape Town, as far as I can recall, but virtually no-one in Jo'burg. At least that I know of. If you want to chat, just private message me. Carl Jo'burg