Loves my A-1's, BUT! at DVinfo.net

Gary J. Walker · September 18th, 2007, 10:01 PM

Went from Pana's to Sony's, Cleaned heads before switching, yadee-yadee-yadee, aside from the average dropouts 1-2 per hr tape, I've noticed that on half of them, If I recapture a second time I can get rid of them...anyone else...(using Pana 63MQ's and Sony HDV DV's). Gary

Eric Weiss · September 18th, 2007, 10:13 PM

if you can recap without the dropout, then its not a camera related dropout..it's a capture error.

i've had very few using sony tapes. it's a single gop pause in the source tape that happens during the recording. usually in bumpy or humid conditions.

Bogdan Tyburczy · September 18th, 2007, 10:37 PM

I suggest cleaning cassette compartment with duster holding camera upside down. Dust particles inside your camera could be the culprit. Just be careful not to apply too much pressure. Test blow in the air first to make sure it does not spit any liquid.

I clean my camera this way after every few hours of work, especially in dusty environments. If eye can catch something, your camera can too.

Gary J. Walker · September 18th, 2007, 10:48 PM

Thanks guys, Eric, good point...I'm currently running some more test as we speak..I report later. Good night. Gary

Bill Watson · September 19th, 2007, 12:32 AM

Also look at what else is running in the house/office when you're capturing.

An air conditioning unit or fridge switching on or off can cause a momentary sag/surge/spike which can sometimes trigger frame drop.

Richard Zlamany · September 19th, 2007, 01:17 AM

Funny I just did a switch from panny to sony because of audio dropouts. The sony tapes are working much better, but I did use the pans for almost 2 years without problems. I wondered what happened?

Matthew Amirkhani · September 19th, 2007, 08:46 AM

Hi guys,

I realized that I am having problems with my camera also. I have always used Pan AMQ tapes, however I did send the camera in for service yesterday . I've been cleaning the head,used compressed air and...

interesting enough I tested the camera by connecting it directly to TV and it paused (Dropframe) during playback???

Will see how it goes!

Matthew

Pavel Sedlak · September 19th, 2007, 09:05 AM

I use pana and FUJI tape, but both have drops.

Now I use Sony HDV tape (and Sony Premium .-) ) and both are ok :-) .

Gary J. Walker · September 19th, 2007, 10:04 AM

Which Sony's are you using, I don't know the model number but their is a pro-tape (about $15.00) which I haven't tried...the ones I'm using are in the $9.00 range. Gary...and do they work better

Eric Weiss · September 19th, 2007, 10:39 AM

i use hdv and excellence in the A1. i use cheapo premium in the HV20.
they are all fine. i'd also suggest using the 30/60/63 minute tapes. i find those extended 80+ minute ones suspect. People report more dropouts with extended tapes as well.

Steve Wolla · September 19th, 2007, 09:37 PM

The 80 min tapes are much thinner material and can be much more subject to stretching, pitch variance, etc over time. The 60's and 63's are the way to go.

Mikko Lopponen · September 20th, 2007, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Weiss

if you can recap without the dropout, then its not a camera related dropout..it's a capture error.

I don't agree. I've had some dropouts with my hc1 and some of them can be captured again correctly, some cannot be. But none of them happen because of my pc.

Richard Zlamany · September 20th, 2007, 10:38 AM

I am receiving 80 minute Sony tapes today, so I can to a fair test against the panny before this weekend's weddings.

I have used panny 80 minute tapes for 2 years without the amount of dropouts that I am receiving that forced me to change tape stock.
Odd thing is my 2nd cam (vx2100)is doing much better with the panny tapes than the pd170.

I prefer 80 minute tapes, so I hope this isn't the real issue for me. I need all the record time I can get. It is hard enough not having 2hr tapes.

Gary J. Walker · September 20th, 2007, 11:07 AM

Bottom line, seems like a problem with the camera, I've owned Gl's and Sony DSR300's for eight years without a Dropout!...I would think it's a problem with the camera, (I have two A1's both with the same problem) has anyone talked to canon in california and sent their's in and got it to work proplerly. Gary

Eric Weiss · September 20th, 2007, 11:56 AM

seems to me that it's more of a tape and hdv format issue. i've had the same ratio of drop outs on the hv20. do other brand hdv cams have dropout?

hdv is a highly compressed gop codec. one small glitch and 10-15 frames are gone. with dv, it's one frame that's easily edited out.. and i've had plenty of those with canon, jvc, and sony cams.

i have shot hundreds of tapes now with hdv content on the a1 and hv20.
my drop out rate is probably 1 gop drop per 5 hours.

regarding some other comments made above. i define "dropout" as the camera freezing for one gop and never putting those missing frames to tape. they are not there. if you can recap and get those frames, then it's not drop out. it's a capture issue. whether it's your cam, your cable, or your system..it's a capture issue.

i've never imported with the A1, I use the HV20. It's 100% on capturing the
the content that's on the tape without any error on both HDV and downconverting to SD.

if your A1 is freezing like that during the import process when the content is indeed on that tape.. then yeah, that's an issue, but it's not in the recording process.

September 18th, 2007, 10:01 PM	#1
Gary J. Walker Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Gilbert Arizona Posts: 96	Loves my A-1's, BUT! Went from Pana's to Sony's, Cleaned heads before switching, yadee-yadee-yadee, aside from the average dropouts 1-2 per hr tape, I've noticed that on half of them, If I recapture a second time I can get rid of them...anyone else...(using Pana 63MQ's and Sony HDV DV's). Gary

September 19th, 2007, 08:46 AM	#7
Matthew Amirkhani Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 279	Hi guys, I realized that I am having problems with my camera also. I have always used Pan AMQ tapes, however I did send the camera in for service yesterday . I've been cleaning the head,used compressed air and... interesting enough I tested the camera by connecting it directly to TV and it paused (Dropframe) during playback??? Will see how it goes! Matthew __________________ Canon XHA1, Brevis 35mm, Manfrotto 028,501,Vegas Pro 10e

September 19th, 2007, 09:05 AM	#8
Pavel Sedlak Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Prague Czech Republic Posts: 263	re tape I use pana and FUJI tape, but both have drops. Now I use Sony HDV tape (and Sony Premium .-) ) and both are ok :-) .

September 18th, 2007, 10:13 PM	#2
Eric Weiss Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Philly,PA Posts: 360	if you can recap without the dropout, then its not a camera related dropout..it's a capture error. i've had very few using sony tapes. it's a single gop pause in the source tape that happens during the recording. usually in bumpy or humid conditions.

September 18th, 2007, 10:37 PM	#3
Bogdan Tyburczy Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 161	I suggest cleaning cassette compartment with duster holding camera upside down. Dust particles inside your camera could be the culprit. Just be careful not to apply too much pressure. Test blow in the air first to make sure it does not spit any liquid. I clean my camera this way after every few hours of work, especially in dusty environments. If eye can catch something, your camera can too.

September 18th, 2007, 10:48 PM	#4
Gary J. Walker Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Gilbert Arizona Posts: 96	Thanks guys, Eric, good point...I'm currently running some more test as we speak..I report later. Good night. Gary

September 19th, 2007, 12:32 AM	#5
Bill Watson Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Noosa Queensland Australia Posts: 248	Also look at what else is running in the house/office when you're capturing. An air conditioning unit or fridge switching on or off can cause a momentary sag/surge/spike which can sometimes trigger frame drop.

September 19th, 2007, 01:17 AM	#6
Richard Zlamany Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hamden CT Posts: 470	Funny I just did a switch from panny to sony because of audio dropouts. The sony tapes are working much better, but I did use the pans for almost 2 years without problems. I wondered what happened?

September 19th, 2007, 10:04 AM	#9
Gary J. Walker Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Gilbert Arizona Posts: 96	Which Sony's are you using, I don't know the model number but their is a pro-tape (about $15.00) which I haven't tried...the ones I'm using are in the $9.00 range. Gary...and do they work better

September 19th, 2007, 10:39 AM	#10
Eric Weiss Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Philly,PA Posts: 360	i use hdv and excellence in the A1. i use cheapo premium in the HV20. they are all fine. i'd also suggest using the 30/60/63 minute tapes. i find those extended 80+ minute ones suspect. People report more dropouts with extended tapes as well.

September 19th, 2007, 09:37 PM	#11
Steve Wolla Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 477	The 80 min tapes are much thinner material and can be much more subject to stretching, pitch variance, etc over time. The 60's and 63's are the way to go.

September 20th, 2007, 10:38 AM	#13
Richard Zlamany Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hamden CT Posts: 470	I am receiving 80 minute Sony tapes today, so I can to a fair test against the panny before this weekend's weddings. I have used panny 80 minute tapes for 2 years without the amount of dropouts that I am receiving that forced me to change tape stock. Odd thing is my 2nd cam (vx2100)is doing much better with the panny tapes than the pd170. I prefer 80 minute tapes, so I hope this isn't the real issue for me. I need all the record time I can get. It is hard enough not having 2hr tapes.

September 20th, 2007, 11:07 AM	#14
Gary J. Walker Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Gilbert Arizona Posts: 96	Bottom line, seems like a problem with the camera, I've owned Gl's and Sony DSR300's for eight years without a Dropout!...I would think it's a problem with the camera, (I have two A1's both with the same problem) has anyone talked to canon in california and sent their's in and got it to work proplerly. Gary

September 20th, 2007, 11:56 AM	#15
Eric Weiss Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Philly,PA Posts: 360	seems to me that it's more of a tape and hdv format issue. i've had the same ratio of drop outs on the hv20. do other brand hdv cams have dropout? hdv is a highly compressed gop codec. one small glitch and 10-15 frames are gone. with dv, it's one frame that's easily edited out.. and i've had plenty of those with canon, jvc, and sony cams. i have shot hundreds of tapes now with hdv content on the a1 and hv20. my drop out rate is probably 1 gop drop per 5 hours. regarding some other comments made above. i define "dropout" as the camera freezing for one gop and never putting those missing frames to tape. they are not there. if you can recap and get those frames, then it's not drop out. it's a capture issue. whether it's your cam, your cable, or your system..it's a capture issue. i've never imported with the A1, I use the HV20. It's 100% on capturing the the content that's on the tape without any error on both HDV and downconverting to SD. if your A1 is freezing like that during the import process when the content is indeed on that tape.. then yeah, that's an issue, but it's not in the recording process.