Are they going to update the XHA1

[Meryem Ersoz]

this is the type of 3rd-party device i'm talking about...for the G1 and the H1, not the A1 so much.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ght=convergent

by the time the XDCAM EX camera price is cut in half, it will mean that there will be something better that you want more, for a higher price....isn't that how it typically works?

[Mats Frendahl]

Originally Posted by Meryem Ersoz

by the time the XDCAM EX camera price is cut in half, it will mean that there will be something better that you want more, for a higher price....isn't that how it typically works?

Not necess. - the A1 was "pro" some years ago - and here we sit with it... even though G1, EX, ..., F355, ... exist...

[Meryem Ersoz]

not sure what you mean by the A1 was "pro" some years ago...it was released last november, roughly. it's not even a year since it was released. it's an interesting perception, that this is somehow "old" tech....

especially when the existing delivery systems are only barely capable of outputting the images this camera can produce.

[Phil Anderson]

I think the question isn't whether tape will be around in five years (I think it will in some form or another) but whether this camera will be a viable camera to use on many shoots in five years.

For example, the DVX100 was fairly revolutionary, and came out in fall of 2002. Five years ago. I'd still use one on a shoot, but it's getting a tad long in the tooth. The Canon isn't as revolutionary, but it follows what is now a pretty good standard of HDV at 1080p. So I think it's safe to say it will be around as a viable camera in 2010 or so.

As to Canon updating the A1, I don't think so. Not for a while, like many months. Plus I think it's incorrect to compare the EX to the A1, as the cost is double. Comparing the H1 to the EX is more accurate.

[Mats Frendahl]

Meryem, The A1 procdues what pro equip. did some years ago. with your reasoning we should just skip that and go for "state of the art" today. Well, not with our (mine) budgets. In 2-3 years the EX will be "A1 as of 2007" and there will be an ABC 123 model from XYZ doing 3x the quality of EX at 7k ... but the "todays EX" will be there as semi-pro for 4k. It's just a matter where you want to be in the spectra of quality and price. Some just have to buy the latest and - thank heavens - pay for the development of new tech. Just as there are some that buys the 100k BMWs/MBs and pay for that. After 3 years all that "goodies" are in the standard cars - same applies for camcorders.

[Mats Frendahl]

Phil, I think that the "user need" is important here. If you travel a lot and use "moving camera" a lot you might want to have the latest in auto focus, ability to film in poor light conditions etc. These users will surely want to upgrade if better units exist. For the other users, like me, that mostly do stationary work with good lights I would not upgrade for such reasons. As long as the lense/sensor etc. performs I'm happy. Would I need/want 4k resolution? Hm. Will the TVs, DVDs etc. be able to reflect that and will customers/viewer value it? Perhaps then would I upgrade to such a unit. But as for now I can see the A1 being used a long time still.

There is perhaps not much Canon can do to upgrade it, unless a new house, exchangeable lenses etc. But then they are targeting their other brands - to stay within the A1-area I think they are happy. There are wish-lists for next A1. Perhaps that will give a clue what will happen in 3 years or so.

[Jack Walker]

Originally Posted by Mats Frendahl

Meryem, The A1 procdues what pro equip. did some years ago.

Which pro equipment do you mean that the A! duplicates now? A few years ago all the pro video equipment was SD wasn't it?

Or maybe you are talking about cinema cameras, with 35mm lenses and all the accoutrements, any one of which by itself would cost multiples of the cost of an A!.

I think the A1 is in its own class. It blows up well to 35mm film and you can carry it in a small overnight bag with all the accessories you need for a professional product.

I think the camera you should look at is the Red. It does way more than the cinema video cameras of a few years ago, and it's a fraction of the price. The only problem with this level of "quality" image, is that the lenses are not likely to drop 10 times in price.

[Mats Frendahl]

Originally Posted by Jack Walker

Which pro equipment do you mean that the A! duplicates now? A few years ago all the pro video equipment was SD wasn't it?

Probably - but compare the ability to shot in dark places. A modern unit will not duplicate any former unit - it will outperform them, to a lower price.

Originally Posted by Jack Walker

Or maybe you are talking about cinema cameras, with 35mm lenses and all the accoutrements, any one of which by itself would cost multiples of the cost of an A!.

The S-klasse costs 10 times the Toyota - and still you find the "S-klasse" stuff from 1995 in a Toyota now. Who do you think invented the ABS system (and paid for it) ... but now we are not talking about camcorders - perhaps we should go back to that :)

I have an A1 - it's good. I'm not peddling EX - if anyone thought that.

Nope, not interested in being a multi-camera man. The rare occasions I need real pro stuff I will hire the folks for it.

"is that the lenses are not likely to drop 10 times in price"
Right, good lenses last a long time - much longer than any sensor technology. Canon have sold some 30M lenses - prob. most of them are still used today. I guess that the SLR bodies are not.

[Jack Walker]

Originally Posted by Mats Frendahl

Probably - but compare the ability to shot in dark places. A modern unit will not duplicate any former unit - it will outperform them, to a lower price.

Can you please give the make and model number of this former unit? Thanks.

[Mats Frendahl]

Originally Posted by Jack Walker

Can you please give the make and model number of this former unit? Thanks.

No, don't keep track of models, brands etc. of yesterday's gadgets (not even today's gadgets ) - I'm just using what's at hand. I'm sure there are plenty of guys that can give exact specs. for anything. I'm not one of those however. And yes, HD was not around in 19xx - so much we can agree upon. The rest we might never agree upon. Wasn't there a song with Fred and Ginger?

To return to the topic

"Are they going to update the XHA1": who knows
If so, will it be better: probably, why make it worse
Will it be cheaper: who knows
When will it be availble: who knows, but "carpe diem" and start making money with what's at hand today.

I guess that sums up the topic.

[Phil Anderson]

Originally Posted by Mats Frendahl

Phil, I think that the "user need" is important here...

Oh yes. I'd say that even applies very much to purchasing in the first place. First in comparing something like P2 cards to tape, or the fact that the HVX200 will overcrank. Or how the OIS is superior on the Canon's to anything else out there (I sure think so). But also in comparing ergonomics, how it feels in your hands. And how you like the look of the camera's picture, both tweaked and untweaked. I really like the look of the Canon's, for example. Something about the Flourite lenses, the guts of the thing. I like the HVX almost as much. The JVC HD100 I'm in the middle about. I hate the look of the Sony Z1. But for the most part like the look of the V1 quite a bit, which is quite different looking. A friend of mine however loves the look of the Z1, but not the V1. And so on...

[Don Palomaki]

Based on Canon's track record of updates to their prosumer line camcorder products about every three years, I would expect the A1 to receive an update in around 2 years give or take.

[Jack Walker]

Originally Posted by Mats Frendahl

No, don't keep track of models, brands etc. of yesterday's gadgets (not even today's gadgets )

My point was that I don't think there was such a camera you describe. (Don't even know if you are talking digital or tape.) In any case, I believe that the A1 is better than Beta SP. So what was better than Beta SP back in the day, I can't imagine without an example.

[Bill Pryor]

Betacam SP was a format, and there were some really good Betacam SP cameras and a couple of really rotten ones. HDV is definitely better. Whether the Canon would look better than a BVW600 recording to an HDV deck, I dunno. If you want to compare HDV to Betacam SP it should be done with equivalent cameras...although at this point there isn't one, since no HDV cameras go past 1/3" chips, except for XDCAM HD which is HDV but really isn't because it uses 35mbs...HDV on acid?

My flippant point is that it makes sense to compare formats to formats and cameras to cameras, but not a 1/3" chip camera to a 2/3" chip one because how do you know which one's the better camera unless you can look at both of them recorded to the same format? Or at least look at them with live outputs, and in that case I think the BVW600 would win.

All of which is really irrelevant. But I always think about the earlier DV days when this comes up because we had people comparing hand held video shot with no lights from a PD150 to beautiful photographed stuff shot with BVW400s, etc., and proclaiming that DV didn't look as good as Betacam SP, when in fact it looks slightly better if you compare apples to apples, or chips to chips as the case may be.

[Phil Anderson]

All of which is really irrelevant. But I always think about the earlier DV days when this comes up because we had people comparing hand held video shot with no lights from a PD150 to beautiful photographed stuff shot with BVW400s....

This is REALLY true. I've said on this and many other forums that the old saying really applies: It's the carpenter, not the tools. Give John Toll a Canon XH-A1 and a small lighting kit, and his footage will look better than mine using the Phantom 65 and the whole grip truck.