25F - stairs in thin objects

Daniel Browning · May 21st, 2008, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Roper

I disagree. You're lumping the progressive monitors with known poor deinterlacers to the ones that pass full bandwidth. See link below to Gery Merson's testing article:

Are You Getting All the the HDTV Resolution You Expected? Round 3

When viewing 24F or 60i on a Pioneer Kuro or Elite Pro FHD1, the 60i from the Canon A1 is sharper and more artifact free as well, whether static or in motion, than the 24F which has the stairstepping jaggie due to the inherent loss of vertical resolution on the A1, which was the subject that fostered this thread.

I'll read the entire link when I have time, but from a cursory glance I didn't see any mention about normal interlaced artifacts such as combing and flickering; just references to artifacts caused by incorrect pulldown detection.

I've compared my A1's 30F and 24F against 60i with a variety of deinterlace-to-60p algorithms (tdint, yadiff, a few mocomp) and in every case, the interlace artifacts are always visible in high motion scenes or the motion is blurred enough to remove the artifacts.

Finally, it should be said that these resolution and artifact issues are secondary to the desired look of the production.

Tom Roper · May 21st, 2008, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Browning

Finally, it should be said that these resolution and artifact issues are secondary to the desired look of the production.

Wholeheartedly agree.

Pavel Tomanec · May 26th, 2008, 02:17 AM

Hi, I also agree. How about if your desire is to have your production artifacts free as an objective for the desired look of the piece? Basically the ideal is to achieve balance between the quality of the picture and the content.

I like canon xh a1 very much, especially the 24f/25f quality. I guess will just have to live with the occasional stairs in contrasty and fast moving situations. In my view it is ultimately about the feeling, whether the picture feel like real...

Pavel Tomanec · July 20th, 2008, 07:22 AM

Hi,

just like to report that the 'stairs' after sending the footage through Compressor (mpeg2 HDV 1080p setting) came out less visible, in some cases almost disappeared. Nice.

Pavel Tomanec · January 24th, 2009, 08:44 AM

Ok, recently I shot water fall on a bright day and then I looked at the footage. Basically the horizontal line or stair was traveling across the frame all the way through from bottom direction up. Terrifying.

Then I have noticed that using camera filters helped the images. I shot with 6x4 Low Contrast 1 and 3 strength and Diffuser number 1. The picture was clearer in a sense that it did not have the infamous stairs on it even on a bright day and with some movements in the frame. But I did not change any setting in the camera, mainly using Panavision 2 and Terra 2 present but with more sharpening added (-2 to -4).

I can't help myself but thinking and hopefully seeing too that the 25f mode appears better in FCP than 50i.

Regards,
Pavel

May 26th, 2008, 02:17 AM	#63
Pavel Tomanec Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Oxford (UK) and Vrindavana (India) Posts: 118	Hi, I also agree. How about if your desire is to have your production artifacts free as an objective for the desired look of the piece? Basically the ideal is to achieve balance between the quality of the picture and the content. I like canon xh a1 very much, especially the 24f/25f quality. I guess will just have to live with the occasional stairs in contrasty and fast moving situations. In my view it is ultimately about the feeling, whether the picture feel like real... __________________ The fish is the last to know the water.

July 20th, 2008, 07:22 AM	#64
Pavel Tomanec Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Oxford (UK) and Vrindavana (India) Posts: 118	25f after compression Hi, just like to report that the 'stairs' after sending the footage through Compressor (mpeg2 HDV 1080p setting) came out less visible, in some cases almost disappeared. Nice. __________________ The fish is the last to know the water.

January 24th, 2009, 08:44 AM	#65
Pavel Tomanec Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Oxford (UK) and Vrindavana (India) Posts: 118	Stairs Update Ok, recently I shot water fall on a bright day and then I looked at the footage. Basically the horizontal line or stair was traveling across the frame all the way through from bottom direction up. Terrifying. Then I have noticed that using camera filters helped the images. I shot with 6x4 Low Contrast 1 and 3 strength and Diffuser number 1. The picture was clearer in a sense that it did not have the infamous stairs on it even on a bright day and with some movements in the frame. But I did not change any setting in the camera, mainly using Panavision 2 and Terra 2 present but with more sharpening added (-2 to -4). I can't help myself but thinking and hopefully seeing too that the 25f mode appears better in FCP than 50i. Regards, Pavel __________________ The fish is the last to know the water.