mic & line at the same time? at DVinfo.net

Ger Griffin · September 5th, 2007, 05:10 PM

hey guys,
this is an audio related question but i reckon yourselves may be a better shot since its related to the A1 also.

I have the rode videomic (mini jack)

I also want to be able to bring a line in feed into the cam.

so I got a mini-1/4 converter and 1/4 to xlr (for the videomic) into xlr input 1
I brought a line-out phono into an xlr adaptor (from a stereo) into xlr input 2

so the line in from the stereo works (on channel 2) and the videomic doesnt (channel 1). i tried fooling around with all the little switches (of which im not quite sure of) and still no videomic.

Now im wondering can a mic source and a line source be brought into each of the 2 seperate channels? and if so why doesnt this work?

do i need to purchase a mic with an xlr cable built in?

any help would be much appreciated as im trying to get this sorted for the weekend.

Daniel Browning · September 5th, 2007, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ger Griffin

Now im wondering can a mic source and a line source be brought into each of the 2 seperate channels? and if so why doesnt this work?

No. It doesn't work because the XH A1 doesn't have that feature.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ger Griffin

do i need to purchase a mic with an xlr cable built in?

No. The best quality will come from amping the mic signal to line with a good mixer ($400+) . A cheaper option is to use a 40 dB attenuator, which runs around $30.

Ger Griffin · September 5th, 2007, 05:58 PM

Daniel,
does the 40 db attenuator cut down on the line signal to match it to a mic level? in which case i'd set the mic/line switch on the A1 to mic?

and what is it , a connector of some kind?
thanks for the help

Daniel Browning · September 5th, 2007, 06:03 PM

Yes and yes.

Don Palomaki · September 6th, 2007, 07:03 AM

The line output level from a consumer stereo is around -10 dBV, and typically relatively high impedance (often 10K ohms or higher).

On the other hand, mixers often have a mic level output option that should work with the Videomic.

The output of the Videomic is probably around -40 dBV, and relatively low impedance.

The connection you describe should have resulted in a very soft recording levels from the video mic. If there was no sound what so ever, smething is wrong with the adapter scheme you used.

Using a 30 dB inline attenuator should work to bring the stereo output in line with the output level of the Videomic.

At one time Radio Shack offered a cable with built-in attenuators for this sort of application. (Not sure they still have them.)

The Shure A15AS or A15LA are adapters that provide attenuation and may work in your application. They can be found for under US$40.

Ger Griffin · September 6th, 2007, 02:30 PM

Don,
Its actually the audio of an A/V transmitter/receiver i want to use alongside the videomic.

just looking here at the specs and it says the recievers audio output level is-

1(the symbol in these brackets are and a + on top of a -)0. 2V p-p@600ohm (stereo)

i got no level at all from the videomic but checked the setup later and it works alright when the line isnt going into channel 2 on the A1

I have a couple of lads trying to set me up with a 40db attenuator at the moment and it should be ready tommorow.

Peter Ralph · September 6th, 2007, 02:46 PM

on the sennheiser g2 I can feed the transmitter a line level signal and then set sensitivity to -30db and get a mic level signal to the receiver.

David Ennis · September 6th, 2007, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ger Griffin

Don,
i got no level at all from the videomic but checked the setup later and it works alright when the line isnt going into channel 2 on the A1

Although it is counter-intuitive, when the channel selector switch is set to "CH1-CH2" the CH2 input is turned off and the CH1 input signal goes to both channels. But when the channel selector switch is set to "CH1" then both inputs are turned on, and the CH1 signal goes to channel 1 while the CH2 signal goes to channel two.

And it is a shame that the XLR inputs cannot be independently set to mic or line level on a pro cam. I don't know what they were thinking.

Bill Busby · September 6th, 2007, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Ennis

And it is a shame that the XLR inputs cannot be independently set to mic or line level on a pro cam. I don't know what they were thinking.

I agree. It's one of my main gripes.

Bill

Bill Pryor · September 6th, 2007, 09:15 PM

It's a bit of an irritant. There are times I want a line in from a mic, but would like the camera mic running too to pick up ambient sound. What I have to do is add a cable from the camera-mounted mic down to the mixer and then back to the camera. This is fairly rare, however.

Don Palomaki · September 7th, 2007, 06:18 AM

[Quite] ... audio of an A/V transmitter/receiver ... [/Quote]

What make/model? As implied above, some wireless receivers (but not all) allow adjustment of output level.

Also, David's note regarding the setting of the CH1-CH2 switch on the XLR jack module may solve the problem of hearing the Videomic.

Bill Pryor · September 7th, 2007, 09:17 AM

Speaking of wireless...lots of people are using the Sennheiser G2 these days, myself included. It's easy to get lousy sound out of that package, but if you learn to set it properly, it's the best wireless around for the money, I think. This tutorial will solve all your problems:

dvcreators.net/products/sennheiser_wireless_movieframe.htm

Ger Griffin · September 7th, 2007, 08:22 PM

im just trying out this 2.4 ghz a/V transmitter.

I connect the transmitter to any audio out (via a few adapters usually) and recieve the audio only. It works a treat in the test i did. apparently it operates at a far higher frequency than all the rf signals so a good clean digital signal can be achieved.

heres the best bit, it costs €65 euro. its tiny too. 7.5 volts so the guys are setting me up with a way to power it by batt. the reciever velcros to the cam very easily.

Its designed for home use, selling as a way to send your dvd signal to another tv without any cables, but it could be just what we need.

if i could just get a way to mix the ext mic with it and remain mobile.

Ill have to check the model number, its from nikkai anyway but theres lots of them being made in recent times. This one is particulary small and powered by low voltage. will post model number tomorrow when i can get it.

Greg Rothschild · September 8th, 2007, 02:09 PM

Something like this: http://www.frontendaudio.com/Product...oductCode=7178
would help.

Don Palomaki · September 8th, 2007, 05:09 PM

FWIW: Most (but not all) audio gear sold for home/consumer use is medium/high impedance, intended for use with devices with an input impedance of 10K ohms or higher. The info should be contained in the specification, if they are published for your gear. The output level and impedance characteristics of the gear would drive any recommended solution.

September 5th, 2007, 05:10 PM	#1
Ger Griffin Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 579	mic & line at the same time? hey guys, this is an audio related question but i reckon yourselves may be a better shot since its related to the A1 also. I have the rode videomic (mini jack) I also want to be able to bring a line in feed into the cam. so I got a mini-1/4 converter and 1/4 to xlr (for the videomic) into xlr input 1 I brought a line-out phono into an xlr adaptor (from a stereo) into xlr input 2 so the line in from the stereo works (on channel 2) and the videomic doesnt (channel 1). i tried fooling around with all the little switches (of which im not quite sure of) and still no videomic. Now im wondering can a mic source and a line source be brought into each of the 2 seperate channels? and if so why doesnt this work? do i need to purchase a mic with an xlr cable built in? any help would be much appreciated as im trying to get this sorted for the weekend.

September 6th, 2007, 07:03 AM	#5
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	The line output level from a consumer stereo is around -10 dBV, and typically relatively high impedance (often 10K ohms or higher). On the other hand, mixers often have a mic level output option that should work with the Videomic. The output of the Videomic is probably around -40 dBV, and relatively low impedance. The connection you describe should have resulted in a very soft recording levels from the video mic. If there was no sound what so ever, smething is wrong with the adapter scheme you used. Using a 30 dB inline attenuator should work to bring the stereo output in line with the output level of the Videomic. At one time Radio Shack offered a cable with built-in attenuators for this sort of application. (Not sure they still have them.) The Shure A15AS or A15LA are adapters that provide attenuation and may work in your application. They can be found for under US$40. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

September 7th, 2007, 06:18 AM	#11
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	[Quite] ... audio of an A/V transmitter/receiver ... [/Quote] What make/model? As implied above, some wireless receivers (but not all) allow adjustment of output level. Also, David's note regarding the setting of the CH1-CH2 switch on the XLR jack module may solve the problem of hearing the Videomic. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

September 8th, 2007, 02:09 PM	#14
Greg Rothschild Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Los Angeles, Ca Posts: 120	Something like this: http://www.frontendaudio.com/Product...oductCode=7178 would help. __________________ Greg Rothschild Photography http://www.gregrothschild.com

September 8th, 2007, 05:09 PM	#15
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	FWIW: Most (but not all) audio gear sold for home/consumer use is medium/high impedance, intended for use with devices with an input impedance of 10K ohms or higher. The info should be contained in the specification, if they are published for your gear. The output level and impedance characteristics of the gear would drive any recommended solution. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

September 5th, 2007, 05:58 PM	#3
Ger Griffin Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 579	Daniel, does the 40 db attenuator cut down on the line signal to match it to a mic level? in which case i'd set the mic/line switch on the A1 to mic? and what is it , a connector of some kind? thanks for the help

September 5th, 2007, 06:03 PM	#4
Daniel Browning Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 949	Yes and yes.

September 6th, 2007, 02:30 PM	#6
Ger Griffin Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 579	Don, Its actually the audio of an A/V transmitter/receiver i want to use alongside the videomic. just looking here at the specs and it says the recievers audio output level is- 1(the symbol in these brackets are and a + on top of a -)0. 2V p-p@600ohm (stereo) i got no level at all from the videomic but checked the setup later and it works alright when the line isnt going into channel 2 on the A1 I have a couple of lads trying to set me up with a 40db attenuator at the moment and it should be ready tommorow.

September 6th, 2007, 02:46 PM	#7
Peter Ralph Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Denver/Vail Colorado Posts: 254	on the sennheiser g2 I can feed the transmitter a line level signal and then set sensitivity to -30db and get a mic level signal to the receiver.

September 6th, 2007, 09:15 PM	#10
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	It's a bit of an irritant. There are times I want a line in from a mic, but would like the camera mic running too to pick up ambient sound. What I have to do is add a cable from the camera-mounted mic down to the mixer and then back to the camera. This is fairly rare, however.

September 7th, 2007, 09:17 AM	#12
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Speaking of wireless...lots of people are using the Sennheiser G2 these days, myself included. It's easy to get lousy sound out of that package, but if you learn to set it properly, it's the best wireless around for the money, I think. This tutorial will solve all your problems: dvcreators.net/products/sennheiser_wireless_movieframe.htm

September 7th, 2007, 08:22 PM	#13
Ger Griffin Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 579	im just trying out this 2.4 ghz a/V transmitter. I connect the transmitter to any audio out (via a few adapters usually) and recieve the audio only. It works a treat in the test i did. apparently it operates at a far higher frequency than all the rf signals so a good clean digital signal can be achieved. heres the best bit, it costs €65 euro. its tiny too. 7.5 volts so the guys are setting me up with a way to power it by batt. the reciever velcros to the cam very easily. Its designed for home use, selling as a way to send your dvd signal to another tv without any cables, but it could be just what we need. if i could just get a way to mix the ext mic with it and remain mobile. Ill have to check the model number, its from nikkai anyway but theres lots of them being made in recent times. This one is particulary small and powered by low voltage. will post model number tomorrow when i can get it.