Canon XH-G1 or other camera for independent films at DVinfo.net

Monish Bansal · August 30th, 2007, 01:54 PM

hi guys

i'm really interested in making documentry and short films, i have looked around in the forum and i think the Canon XH-G1 is a good camera.

my basic work with it would be to capture , edit , and transfer.

i'd like to capture in HD using the HD-SDI port, from what i have read thats better than HDV.

i'm a novice when it comes to these camara's. so please bear with me :)

can i connect a External HDD to the HD-SDI via firewire directly??

how much space would HD need?

how is the camera in moving shots?

also i might order it from the UK or the US b'coz it costs to much in india. we use Pal here, would there be a problem if the camera is NTSC only and i want to show it on a Pal TV.

also India HD isn't that widely used, so i will be transfering it either to DVD or VCD or sale. are there any probs with that ???

also can it be Upconverted or tranfered to Digibeta for TV or Film for Cinema showing without quality loss?? i know Film is a big reach but i care more bout Digibeta for tv exabition

i know lots of questions but any help would be gr8

thanx :)

Stephen Eastwood · August 30th, 2007, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monish Bansal

hi guys

i'm really interested in making documentry and short films, i have looked around in the forum and i think the Canon XH-G1 is a good camera.

my basic work with it would be to capture , edit , and transfer.

i'd like to capture in HD using the HD-SDI port, from what i have read thats better than HDV.

i'm a novice when it comes to these camara's. so please bear with me :)

can i connect a External HDD to the HD-SDI via firewire directly??

how much space would HD need?

how is the camera in moving shots?

also i might order it from the UK or the US b'coz it costs to much in india. we use Pal here, would there be a problem if the camera is NTSC only and i want to show it on a Pal TV.

also India HD isn't that widely used, so i will be transfering it either to DVD or VCD or sale. are there any probs with that ???

also can it be Upconverted or tranfered to Digibeta for TV or Film for Cinema showing without quality loss?? i know Film is a big reach but i care more bout Digibeta for tv exabition

i know lots of questions but any help would be gr8

thanx :)

Well you cannot use the firewire for uncompressed HD only hdv signal, the uncompressed HD is about 400gigs per hour vs hdv at about 13 gigs per hour.

You can edit a NTSc and output pal but I wold think it better to shoot what you are outputting.

Downsampling is not a problem, in fact I see it as an improvement over shooting DV to start.

Moving shots its great I have used it on a Steadicam arm and vest, tripod, dolly and crane and jib all work great. At 24 you need to pan slower to not get a motion blur like any film (24frame) movement.

Bill Pryor · August 30th, 2007, 07:55 PM

If you're doing documentary shooting, you don't want to be tethered to a computer or depend on a bunch of hard drives to preserve your original footage.

HDV shot with cameras like the XH A1/G1, XL H1, etc., is a lot better than you might think. I've shot on numerous documentaries that have been shown theatrically at festivals, sold to Sundance Channel, as well as Bravo and others. Most were shot with a DSR250/PD150, and XL2s. Last year I started shooting with an XH A1, and the documentary footage I've shot for a friend was done in SD to match his earlier XL2 footage. Even in SD, it looks good.

I think the beauty of these small cameras is that they are small and lightweight and easy to handle; and with the high resolution of HDV, they look even better than earlier generations. When you hobble them with add-ons like hard drives and lens adapters, you defeat the purpose of having a "handycam" style camera in the first place. That's just my jaded opinion.

Monish Bansal · August 31st, 2007, 09:48 AM

thanx guys cleared up some confusions of mine :)

anymore comments and info are welcome :).

never hurts to know more :)

Chris Soucy · August 31st, 2007, 06:49 PM

Tempted as I am to dive into this thread head first, there is a little voice from stage left cautioning prudence, and advising I test the waters for depth, rocks and 'gators before taking the plunge.

So, to get a handle on just where you're coming from Monish, could you give me a bit more background? Age, actual location in India, whether or not you're experienced with either film (moving or still) or video already, occupation etc.

Given the special circumstances that prevail in India with this sort of undertaking, I would feel a great deal more confident giving advice on such a high cost investment with the extra information.

As proof of this I would suggest you check out this thread and similar posted by Ashok to see just what sort of horrors can crawl out of the woodwork.

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=92867

Catch you soon,

CS

Monish Bansal · August 31st, 2007, 11:48 PM

hi chris,

i'm 25yrs old, from bombay ( mumbai, i dont like to call it that), i have learnt editing on avid Xpress and shoot some stuff on my D8 camcorder and done a course in direction.

i really don't have experience with these 3CCD cameras but never to late to learn :) .

i know some of the video stuff like frame rates etc but not the technical stuff like zebra patterns ( heard of it here ) over & under expose, HD-SDI.

hope that help

tia

Chris Soucy · September 1st, 2007, 01:28 AM

OK, now I've got a "feel" for the situation.

First off, Ashok is going to be in Bombay sometime in the next couple of days to try and get his camera system sorted (long story but explained in the thread) and you may want to hook up with him if possible, as he's visiting Canon and you may be able to play with some of the toys if you can tag along. Just a thought. Could be a learning experience.

Going back to your original post:

1. If your final destination is SD, then a G1 seems total over kill. An A1 or similar would do the job just fine. If HD is still that esoteric in India, then it makes no sense going OTT with it. If you have never seen the O/P of a HD cam shot in HDV on a full HD screen, you have an education coming. It is more than capable of giving excellent results.

2. When you start talking about importing gear like HD cameras from abroad, I start to get nervous. I realise they are expensive in India but you need to consider the following:-

a.Even if bought cheaper overseas there is still transport, insurance and duty into India to consider. This will add considerably to the price.

b.There is no point whatsoever in importing an NTSC camera into India, possible yes, practical - get real.

c. If you study Ashoks posts you will see the big downside - if something goes wrong in the first year, your warranty is with the retailer/ manufacturer in the States. That's one heck of a big "down time" by the time it's been packed, shipped, fixed (maybe), re - shipped etc etc let alone the documentation that international shipping for fixing is going to entail. You'll wish you'd never done it. Believe me.

d. A camera like the Canon A1 will still be such a rarity in India that even after the first year, when the warranty has expired, the chances of a successful fix in India (I hate to say this) looks dubious at best. I would dearly love for someone from Canon who knows what's going on to say otherwise and that this "semi pro" stuff IS indeed going to get the specialised attention and facilities it deserves (in India). I am not going to hold my breath. There just aren't going to be enough of them around to warrant the investment. The added "down" factor here is - you're in India, where even the best oiled machine can grind to a complete halt due to one strategically placed idiot (didn't like saying that either, but it is an unfortunate fact of life there).

3. Without knowing what a "D8" or your setup is, I cannot comment on the infrastructure you have in place to actually set about your launch into "big time" stuff, but you do need to consider that a serious upgrade to the camera system will require a commensurate upgrade to just about every other aspect of that infrastructure. Camera support, head, sound, lighting, NLE system and the entire shooting match. This can easily triple the cost of the camera "system". Just how deep are your pockets?

OK, I appologse if that came across as negative, it wasn't meant to be and certainly isn't designed to put you off the idea, just want to make sure these issues have been well thought through before you start lashing zillions on anything, only to find you have dug a very deep hole for yourself.

I have to rush so can't go further, but would welcome the chance to elaborate/ expand if you would like. In the meantime, do contact Ashok and see if that can be sorted, hey, it won't cost anything.

CS

Pete Bauer · September 1st, 2007, 08:38 AM

Monish, I agree with Chris about HD-SDI; it is much more expensive and difficult to work with than HDV. Unless there are specific critical needs such as heavy use of green screen or other compositing kind of work, your wallet will thank you to not take quite such a big leap from Digital8 to HD-SDI. Well shot HDV is not artifact-free (no lossy compression is), but does amazingly well. For downconversion to SD, you'll have the ability to crop and scale a lot and should expect to get superb results. I'm not at Avid user so can't help much on that, but make sure both the computing power and software you use is compatible with the HDV camera you ultimately purchase...affordable HD is out of its infancy but not yet fully mature!

If you're interested in Canon, the XH A1 would probably be the best fit of their cameras, I'd guess. Of course, I don't know how service/warranty would work in India; on the one hand their XL H1 page indicates that PAl-NTSC upgrades are done in Malaysia, but the web site also has a drop down for product service by Indian state. Here is the link for Canon India:

http://www.canon.co.in/

Hopefully they can provide you with camera availability and service/warranty policies.

Monish Bansal · September 2nd, 2007, 04:44 AM

hi

thanx chris and pete

i have a pretty good system for editing C2D 2.4 4GB ram i have adobe CS3. lighting and sound i was thinking of either renting at least the lights the sound i guess make shift boom mic .

lot to think about, i have this biker friend he has his own production house for some local channels and TV12 in Australia. might also ask him about importing stuff coz he said he can get it the cheapest here.

but that leaves the repair thing might call Canon and ask them

thanx again guys :)

August 30th, 2007, 01:54 PM	#1
Monish Bansal New Boot Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: India Posts: 9	Canon XH-G1 or other camera for independent films hi guys i'm really interested in making documentry and short films, i have looked around in the forum and i think the Canon XH-G1 is a good camera. my basic work with it would be to capture , edit , and transfer. i'd like to capture in HD using the HD-SDI port, from what i have read thats better than HDV. i'm a novice when it comes to these camara's. so please bear with me :) can i connect a External HDD to the HD-SDI via firewire directly?? how much space would HD need? how is the camera in moving shots? also i might order it from the UK or the US b'coz it costs to much in india. we use Pal here, would there be a problem if the camera is NTSC only and i want to show it on a Pal TV. also India HD isn't that widely used, so i will be transfering it either to DVD or VCD or sale. are there any probs with that ??? also can it be Upconverted or tranfered to Digibeta for TV or Film for Cinema showing without quality loss?? i know Film is a big reach but i care more bout Digibeta for tv exabition i know lots of questions but any help would be gr8 thanx :)

August 31st, 2007, 06:49 PM	#5
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,688 Images: 18	Hi Monish........... Tempted as I am to dive into this thread head first, there is a little voice from stage left cautioning prudence, and advising I test the waters for depth, rocks and 'gators before taking the plunge. So, to get a handle on just where you're coming from Monish, could you give me a bit more background? Age, actual location in India, whether or not you're experienced with either film (moving or still) or video already, occupation etc. Given the special circumstances that prevail in India with this sort of undertaking, I would feel a great deal more confident giving advice on such a high cost investment with the extra information. As proof of this I would suggest you check out this thread and similar posted by Ashok to see just what sort of horrors can crawl out of the woodwork. http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=92867 Catch you soon, CS

September 1st, 2007, 01:28 AM	#7
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,688 Images: 18	Hi Monish........ OK, now I've got a "feel" for the situation. First off, Ashok is going to be in Bombay sometime in the next couple of days to try and get his camera system sorted (long story but explained in the thread) and you may want to hook up with him if possible, as he's visiting Canon and you may be able to play with some of the toys if you can tag along. Just a thought. Could be a learning experience. Going back to your original post: 1. If your final destination is SD, then a G1 seems total over kill. An A1 or similar would do the job just fine. If HD is still that esoteric in India, then it makes no sense going OTT with it. If you have never seen the O/P of a HD cam shot in HDV on a full HD screen, you have an education coming. It is more than capable of giving excellent results. 2. When you start talking about importing gear like HD cameras from abroad, I start to get nervous. I realise they are expensive in India but you need to consider the following:- a.Even if bought cheaper overseas there is still transport, insurance and duty into India to consider. This will add considerably to the price. b.There is no point whatsoever in importing an NTSC camera into India, possible yes, practical - get real. c. If you study Ashoks posts you will see the big downside - if something goes wrong in the first year, your warranty is with the retailer/ manufacturer in the States. That's one heck of a big "down time" by the time it's been packed, shipped, fixed (maybe), re - shipped etc etc let alone the documentation that international shipping for fixing is going to entail. You'll wish you'd never done it. Believe me. d. A camera like the Canon A1 will still be such a rarity in India that even after the first year, when the warranty has expired, the chances of a successful fix in India (I hate to say this) looks dubious at best. I would dearly love for someone from Canon who knows what's going on to say otherwise and that this "semi pro" stuff IS indeed going to get the specialised attention and facilities it deserves (in India). I am not going to hold my breath. There just aren't going to be enough of them around to warrant the investment. The added "down" factor here is - you're in India, where even the best oiled machine can grind to a complete halt due to one strategically placed idiot (didn't like saying that either, but it is an unfortunate fact of life there). 3. Without knowing what a "D8" or your setup is, I cannot comment on the infrastructure you have in place to actually set about your launch into "big time" stuff, but you do need to consider that a serious upgrade to the camera system will require a commensurate upgrade to just about every other aspect of that infrastructure. Camera support, head, sound, lighting, NLE system and the entire shooting match. This can easily triple the cost of the camera "system". Just how deep are your pockets? OK, I appologse if that came across as negative, it wasn't meant to be and certainly isn't designed to put you off the idea, just want to make sure these issues have been well thought through before you start lashing zillions on anything, only to find you have dug a very deep hole for yourself. I have to rush so can't go further, but would welcome the chance to elaborate/ expand if you would like. In the meantime, do contact Ashok and see if that can be sorted, hey, it won't cost anything. CS

September 1st, 2007, 08:38 AM	#8
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Monish, I agree with Chris about HD-SDI; it is much more expensive and difficult to work with than HDV. Unless there are specific critical needs such as heavy use of green screen or other compositing kind of work, your wallet will thank you to not take quite such a big leap from Digital8 to HD-SDI. Well shot HDV is not artifact-free (no lossy compression is), but does amazingly well. For downconversion to SD, you'll have the ability to crop and scale a lot and should expect to get superb results. I'm not at Avid user so can't help much on that, but make sure both the computing power and software you use is compatible with the HDV camera you ultimately purchase...affordable HD is out of its infancy but not yet fully mature! If you're interested in Canon, the XH A1 would probably be the best fit of their cameras, I'd guess. Of course, I don't know how service/warranty would work in India; on the one hand their XL H1 page indicates that PAl-NTSC upgrades are done in Malaysia, but the web site also has a drop down for product service by Indian state. Here is the link for Canon India: http://www.canon.co.in/ Hopefully they can provide you with camera availability and service/warranty policies. __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

August 30th, 2007, 07:55 PM	#3
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	If you're doing documentary shooting, you don't want to be tethered to a computer or depend on a bunch of hard drives to preserve your original footage. HDV shot with cameras like the XH A1/G1, XL H1, etc., is a lot better than you might think. I've shot on numerous documentaries that have been shown theatrically at festivals, sold to Sundance Channel, as well as Bravo and others. Most were shot with a DSR250/PD150, and XL2s. Last year I started shooting with an XH A1, and the documentary footage I've shot for a friend was done in SD to match his earlier XL2 footage. Even in SD, it looks good. I think the beauty of these small cameras is that they are small and lightweight and easy to handle; and with the high resolution of HDV, they look even better than earlier generations. When you hobble them with add-ons like hard drives and lens adapters, you defeat the purpose of having a "handycam" style camera in the first place. That's just my jaded opinion.

August 31st, 2007, 09:48 AM	#4
Monish Bansal New Boot Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: India Posts: 9	thanx guys cleared up some confusions of mine :) anymore comments and info are welcome :). never hurts to know more :)

August 31st, 2007, 11:48 PM	#6
Monish Bansal New Boot Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: India Posts: 9	hi chris, i'm 25yrs old, from bombay ( mumbai, i dont like to call it that), i have learnt editing on avid Xpress and shoot some stuff on my D8 camcorder and done a course in direction. i really don't have experience with these 3CCD cameras but never to late to learn :) . i know some of the video stuff like frame rates etc but not the technical stuff like zebra patterns ( heard of it here ) over & under expose, HD-SDI. hope that help tia

September 2nd, 2007, 04:44 AM	#9
Monish Bansal New Boot Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: India Posts: 9	hi thanx chris and pete i have a pretty good system for editing C2D 2.4 4GB ram i have adobe CS3. lighting and sound i was thinking of either renting at least the lights the sound i guess make shift boom mic . lot to think about, i have this biker friend he has his own production house for some local channels and TV12 in Australia. might also ask him about importing stuff coz he said he can get it the cheapest here. but that leaves the repair thing might call Canon and ask them thanx again guys :)