back-up to A1 at DVinfo.net

Ger Griffin · August 16th, 2007, 11:43 AM

hey guys,
im looking for your expert opinions on what would be an appropriate
back-up camera to the xh-a1.
Please dont say another A1 cause I just cant afford it.
It would be nice to be able to do 2 cam shoots with this other cam as well.
It would need to be HDV.

Its mainly weddings I shoot.
thanks in advance,
Ger

Even Solberg · August 16th, 2007, 12:06 PM

I use a HV20...

Eric Weiss · August 16th, 2007, 12:16 PM

well, if money is the issue i would go with an hv20.
on shoots i bring an xl-a1, hv20, and a gl2.

i wouldn't drop the $ on another A1 right now either.

in the near future, i'm hoping for some huge improvements on the XL-H2
and will use the A1 as a backup. if that doesn't happen, two A1's is probably the best bet, as i don't see canon releasing an A2 anytime soon.

Bill Pryor · August 16th, 2007, 01:41 PM

From what I've read the HV20 would probably do it for you. My experience with (non-HDV) single chip cameras is that under good and average lighting conditions (ie., not too contrasty the way you might like to light a scene) they can be fairly decent. The HDV cameras should be even better because of the higher resolution. You've got a single chip, a cheap lens, and not the same level of processing as a more expensive camera, so it's not going to be as good--if so, it would cost as much and be bigger--but it can get you out of a jam.

Mats Frendahl · August 16th, 2007, 02:51 PM

I'm getting the HV20 soon - seems to be an excellent 2nd cam to the A1.

With time development will make the A1 the "backup" cam and you get the "next A1" as 1st cam.
The Sony F350 would be nice ;) We will find the same stuff in "XH A3" in 2012 I guess... Be patient... ;)

Ger Griffin · August 16th, 2007, 04:43 PM

thanks for your replies guys.
it seems the hv20 is the way to go so.
just before i do,
2 quick questions to those of you who know

1- does it have a lanc teminal?
2- more importantly, can it be used to play the hdv tapes
shot with the A1 in the HDV format?

Bill Pryor · August 16th, 2007, 04:49 PM

I don't know about No. 1, but question 2 is a definite yes. The HV20 and HV10 are the only cameras other than the XL H1 and XH A1/G1 that will play all the Canon HDV modes, including 24F. It does not record a true 24p like the XH A1's 24F mode does in HDV, but it will play it back. My understanding of its 24p mode is that it outputs it only as a pulldown, rather than a discrete 24 frames per second.

Mats Frendahl · August 16th, 2007, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Pryor

I don't know about No. 1, but question 2 is a definite yes. The HV20 and HV10 are the only cameras other than the XL H1 and XH A1/G1 that will play all the Canon HDV modes, including 24F. It does not record a true 24p like the XH A1's 24F mode does in HDV, but it will play it back. My understanding of its 24p mode is that it outputs it only as a pulldown, rather than a discrete 24 frames per second.

If "control L" is Lanc, then sadly NO

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...nd-Ratings.htm

24F - does it exist? My manual says 25F and is 25fps.

Mats Frendahl · August 16th, 2007, 04:55 PM

Well, here's a crafty guy...

http://yousillyman.blogspot.com/2007...ontroller.html

Interesting solution. I might be tempted to try myself.

More: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=16934

Bill Pryor · August 16th, 2007, 05:07 PM

Clever.

Re: 25f...I didn't realize you were PAL. You've got 25, we've got 24 in NTSCLand.

Mats Frendahl · August 16th, 2007, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Pryor

Clever.

Re: 25f...I didn't realize you were PAL. You've got 25, we've got 24 in NTSCLand.

We're drifting a bit here, but it's an interesting topic and part of Canons "offers" - for the XH A1 and for the HV20 which this topic is about.

In PAL land we have 25 fps. All films (non-digital) are however 24fps.

In NTSC land you prob. have 30 fps and films at 24 fps. I understand that you notice a difference in this.

So, I'm curious, what should I do with Canon's 25F? If it's just 25 fps, this is nothing "extra" in PAL land. There must be something more to it than just fps? or?

I have tested 50i (PAL land's 60i) and 25F and I can't see any difference - perhaps I've shot the wrong subject or under wrong conditions. Anyone that can elaborate on this?

Bill Pryor · August 16th, 2007, 06:03 PM

This is a guess, but I think the only difference is that the F mode would give you a deinterlaced picture, ie., progressive.

Ger Griffin · August 16th, 2007, 08:37 PM

just looking over chris hurds article written a while ago on the hv20 and he says

"When the HV20 begins shipping in April, it'll be interesting to see how this Cine color option matches up with Custom Preset 8 from an XH A1"

does anyone know if this is now the case?

have we a preset for the xha1 optimised to match the hv20?

Chris Carroll · August 17th, 2007, 03:52 PM

I have the XH-A1, and just recently purchased the HV20, as well. It has been a perfect match. HV20 works as a great deck for XH-A1 HDV tapes, and plays all the formats. I've heard interesting, if conflicting, things regarding capturing HDV via the HDMI out into a card. I've read in other posts that the up-ressing done in-camera may be better than up-ressing in post in certain situations, and I am very curious to do an objective test of that. If that is true, it is a much better deck than the fire-wire option on XH-A1. I am impressed with the ability to shoot 4:2:2 HD straight to pc for composite shots, but haven't tried that yet. I still don't have a good enough computer for the intensity card... It's always something.
Most notably, I used the HV20 as a b-camera for a video shoot. I used the 24f Cine-mode and used the factory presets for shooting under tungsten lights, and was able to closely match the image from XH-A1 using the same setting for much of the shoot. In fact, on the HV20, I got none of the odd magenta lines on the fringes that I get sometimes with the XH-A1, so sometimes it's shots looked better! I was really impressed with it as a b-camera. It doesn't 'look professional', however, and people did comment on that, and need to be convinced. Obviously the lens is not as great, and the lack of real manual functions limits its professional uses, but I was impressed with the HV20 on-set.

Ger Griffin · September 9th, 2007, 07:53 AM

would like to thank you guys for the sound advice.

Used my new HV20 over the weekend alongside the A1
and I'm actually shocked at how good it is.
Also I did a test on the downconversion done by both cams
and they are identical so it makes for a perfect deck too.

I intend to use these 2 cams at all my jobs from now on.
Im going to get a nice little tripod and head for it and leave it beside me in the church/venue to go over to every now and again!

August 16th, 2007, 11:43 AM	#1
Ger Griffin Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 579	back-up to A1 hey guys, im looking for your expert opinions on what would be an appropriate back-up camera to the xh-a1. Please dont say another A1 cause I just cant afford it. It would be nice to be able to do 2 cam shoots with this other cam as well. It would need to be HDV. Its mainly weddings I shoot. thanks in advance, Ger

August 16th, 2007, 12:06 PM	#2
Even Solberg Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 106	I use a HV20... __________________ "Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night." -- Edgar Allan Poe

August 17th, 2007, 03:52 PM	#14
Chris Carroll New Boot Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 9	Hv20 & Xh-a1 I have the XH-A1, and just recently purchased the HV20, as well. It has been a perfect match. HV20 works as a great deck for XH-A1 HDV tapes, and plays all the formats. I've heard interesting, if conflicting, things regarding capturing HDV via the HDMI out into a card. I've read in other posts that the up-ressing done in-camera may be better than up-ressing in post in certain situations, and I am very curious to do an objective test of that. If that is true, it is a much better deck than the fire-wire option on XH-A1. I am impressed with the ability to shoot 4:2:2 HD straight to pc for composite shots, but haven't tried that yet. I still don't have a good enough computer for the intensity card... It's always something. Most notably, I used the HV20 as a b-camera for a video shoot. I used the 24f Cine-mode and used the factory presets for shooting under tungsten lights, and was able to closely match the image from XH-A1 using the same setting for much of the shoot. In fact, on the HV20, I got none of the odd magenta lines on the fringes that I get sometimes with the XH-A1, so sometimes it's shots looked better! I was really impressed with it as a b-camera. It doesn't 'look professional', however, and people did comment on that, and need to be convinced. Obviously the lens is not as great, and the lack of real manual functions limits its professional uses, but I was impressed with the HV20 on-set.

September 9th, 2007, 07:53 AM	#15
Ger Griffin Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 579	new hv20 rocks would like to thank you guys for the sound advice. Used my new HV20 over the weekend alongside the A1 and I'm actually shocked at how good it is. Also I did a test on the downconversion done by both cams and they are identical so it makes for a perfect deck too. I intend to use these 2 cams at all my jobs from now on. Im going to get a nice little tripod and head for it and leave it beside me in the church/venue to go over to every now and again!

August 16th, 2007, 12:16 PM	#3
Eric Weiss Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Philly,PA Posts: 360	well, if money is the issue i would go with an hv20. on shoots i bring an xl-a1, hv20, and a gl2. i wouldn't drop the $ on another A1 right now either. in the near future, i'm hoping for some huge improvements on the XL-H2 and will use the A1 as a backup. if that doesn't happen, two A1's is probably the best bet, as i don't see canon releasing an A2 anytime soon.

August 16th, 2007, 01:41 PM	#4
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	From what I've read the HV20 would probably do it for you. My experience with (non-HDV) single chip cameras is that under good and average lighting conditions (ie., not too contrasty the way you might like to light a scene) they can be fairly decent. The HDV cameras should be even better because of the higher resolution. You've got a single chip, a cheap lens, and not the same level of processing as a more expensive camera, so it's not going to be as good--if so, it would cost as much and be bigger--but it can get you out of a jam.

August 16th, 2007, 02:51 PM	#5
Mats Frendahl Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 126	I'm getting the HV20 soon - seems to be an excellent 2nd cam to the A1. With time development will make the A1 the "backup" cam and you get the "next A1" as 1st cam. The Sony F350 would be nice ;) We will find the same stuff in "XH A3" in 2012 I guess... Be patient... ;)

August 16th, 2007, 04:43 PM	#6
Ger Griffin Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 579	thanks for your replies guys. it seems the hv20 is the way to go so. just before i do, 2 quick questions to those of you who know 1- does it have a lanc teminal? 2- more importantly, can it be used to play the hdv tapes shot with the A1 in the HDV format?

August 16th, 2007, 04:49 PM	#7
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I don't know about No. 1, but question 2 is a definite yes. The HV20 and HV10 are the only cameras other than the XL H1 and XH A1/G1 that will play all the Canon HDV modes, including 24F. It does not record a true 24p like the XH A1's 24F mode does in HDV, but it will play it back. My understanding of its 24p mode is that it outputs it only as a pulldown, rather than a discrete 24 frames per second.

August 16th, 2007, 04:55 PM	#9
Mats Frendahl Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 126	Well, here's a crafty guy... http://yousillyman.blogspot.com/2007...ontroller.html Interesting solution. I might be tempted to try myself. More: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=16934

August 16th, 2007, 05:07 PM	#10
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Clever. Re: 25f...I didn't realize you were PAL. You've got 25, we've got 24 in NTSCLand.

August 16th, 2007, 06:03 PM	#12
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	This is a guess, but I think the only difference is that the F mode would give you a deinterlaced picture, ie., progressive.

August 16th, 2007, 08:37 PM	#13
Ger Griffin Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 579	just looking over chris hurds article written a while ago on the hv20 and he says "When the HV20 begins shipping in April, it'll be interesting to see how this Cine color option matches up with Custom Preset 8 from an XH A1" does anyone know if this is now the case? have we a preset for the xha1 optimised to match the hv20?