Canon XH A1/ G1 & ZR - 1000 Controller issue

[Chris Soucy]

It's entirely possible the ZR2000 has a different mechanism for communicating than the ZR1000 (which relies on forward/ backward buttons) and thus the 2000 "looks" more like the actual focus ring on the A1.

This may explain why Canon Australia were a bit dubious about their findings with the 2000 regarding this problem.

From your figures it would appear that the 2000 is acting as one would expect, certainly not the schizophrenic mess the 1000 is.

Interestingly, it sounds like your 2000 actually works better than the focus ring (mine, anyway) - at full wide with my FR on "slow" it's very difficult to stop the focus making gigantic jumps backwards/ forwards.

Interesting indeed!

Thanks for that, food for thought.


CS

PS. I think as a result of what you've said, I'll contact Canon and sus out the chances of getting a ZR2000 to test this behavior- it may just be the answer I'm looking for. If my A1 misbehaves with a 2000 then it would seem I have an actual camera problem. You've made my day!

[J.G. Beckman]

The 2000's focus does have a refreshingly manual feel to it, but I'm not sure how useful it would be to actively adjust focus in a moving, unpredictable environment. The tiny wheel is the size of a volume dial on an old transistor radio and just doesn't have enough torque to respond quickly. Nor could it be used as a kind of remote follow focus, since its speed is ramped rather than constant, not to mention the impossibility of measuring and marking points. As a final fine tuner, though, I think it will be quite handy.

Something I thought of after I posted - I did notice a slight weirdness when doing tests. While not constant or repeatable, there were a couple of occasions where, let's say focus is set manually at 15 feet: by engaging the ZR wheel, literally just touching it, the distance on the LCD would immediately jump to maybe 14 feet, before properly shifting, as if by the LANC signal suddenly seizing control away from the camera's internals, a jar of the focus elements would result. I didn't have an HD monitor to see if a pulse was visible, so it could be just an hiccup in the numerical readout, but it wouldn't be difficult to imagine how this could become problematic. Maybe this is something the firmware addresses?

All that said, however, the PAF button is mainly what I bought it for, and it is miraculous.

Good luck with your further investigations.

[Chris Soucy]

what Canon Australia found with theirs, not as erratic as the 1000 but not exactly what one would expect either.

Problem was, Canon NZ only had a 1000 to test, Canon Aus. only had the 2000.

I've e - mailed Canon NZ to see if they can get their hands on a 2000 and do some side by side testing.

For my purposes, where the "target" is usually many yards/ metres in front of the background and way too small to let the IAF get a lock, I need something that will let me set the manual focus absolutely spot on at a certain distance and keep it there. The IAF is useless as it will always return to the background, the "PAF" ditto and with the ZR1000, the blasted thing is all over the place like a dogs dinner, and won't stop when I take my finger off the button.

It's a bit like playing the slots at Vegas, hit the button, figures keep incrementing in the viewfinder and where it stops - nobody knows! Hit the back button and it starts all over again.


[Just in case anyone missed this - can't use the Focus Ring as, yeah, camera is 13 feeet away on the end of my new (unusable) jib!]

Thanks for the input J.G. Shall keep everyone posted.


CS

[Chris Soucy]

This just in from Canon NZ:

Quote.


"This is the answer I have received from Canon inc via Australia.



Hi Chris, (editors note, the guy at Canon NZ is also a Chris)

Canon Inc. has confirmed that the firmware update was intended to fix the communication issue with LANC device made by other brands. e.g. not responding to certain functions, no start/stop function etc. It does not "fix" the issue that your customer is complaining. Unfortunately there is no solution for it. It is a product limitation but is not a design issue. Please see below.

The camera's focus ring response to the speed of the ring movement. If the ring moves quickly, the focusing steps will be greater. If the ring moves slowly, the focusing steps will be finer.

The dial on ZR1000/ZR2000 has fixed preset speed(s) - balance between steps and focusing speed. Therefore, it is not as precise as camera's focusing ring when it is moved at the slower/slowest speed.

Canon has never said this firmware update fixes the issue the customer described. "

Unquote.

Basically, unless I can find a remote controller, made by somebody other than Canon, that allows for minute focus increments, that's it, period, final - no jib operation requiring accurate manual focus with either an XH A1 or G1 camera.

I cannot tell you just how gutted I am. All that planning, investment, work and effort to be taken out at this stage by a bl***y Lanc controller!


I simply find it totally unbelieveable. Time to go kick something REAL HARD! (no, not the cat).

Any and all suggestions as to how to get out of this mess greatly appreciated.


CS

[Malcolm OBrien]

Chris
If Canon NZ can let you try a ZR-2000 it might be worth the effort. Using the 2000 focus wheel I am seeing consistent incruments of 0.1m till around 6m then 0.2m to around 10m rising rapidly and consistently from there to infinity (as does the focus ring in that range). This would appear to be a lot better than the figures you were getting with the 1000 jog buttons in the 3-5m range.

[Chris Soucy]

Canon NZ are currently trying to source a ZR2000 for that very reason.

I queried a couple of points in the latest "JapGlish" response I had from Canon, and have had a response which was not at all satisfactory.

I intend to post results as and when the ZR2000 has been sourced and I have had a chance to test it out.

Incidently, in the interim, I e - mailed VariZoom with a pretty detailed description of the situation regarding the ZR1000, and basically asked them whether their controllers were any better.

Their answer is, strangely, absent. I suspect this is more than a controller problem and that other controller manufacturers may well have fallen into the same hole with the A1/ G1 cameras.

However, I won't know anything till I have a 2000 to try, which will be at Canon's convenience.

Rest assured, I will not let go of this, as too much is riding on it. The thought of having to change a complete camera system because of this rediculous behaviour is just so gut wrenching as to be untrue.

Thanks for your input, I've had very limited info on the 2000's behaviour with these cams, it's sounding encourageing.

More as and when.

Thanks,


CS

[Stuart Graham]

Chris:

Did you ever get better focus control with a LANC controller on your A1?

Thanks

Stuart

[Chris Soucy]

No.

I never managed to get a loaner from Canon and was left contemplating buying a ZR2000.

As the video budget was (and is) currently $"0" and I had too many other things demanding my time, it all went in the "too hard" basket.

As I'm currently waiting to see what Canon does (eventually) with the A1's replacement AND I'm contemplating the jump up to a higher level and away from HDV/ AVCHD, I've just put this annoyance on hold.


CS