Canon XF705 and H.265

Bryan Worsley · March 22nd, 2019, 09:06 PM

ffmpeg now supports decode of Canon XF-HEVC.mxf files:

git.videolan.org Git - ffmpeg.git/commitdiff

It's implemented in the Zeranoe ffmpeg nightly builds:

https://ffmpeg.zeranoe.com/builds/

Sample XF-705 clips to test:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/uam3s1bvr...J8pDjz8la?dl=0

Charles W. Hull · March 29th, 2019, 03:25 PM

Do you know if any of the sample clips are HLG or HDR?

I may be the only one but this is why I'm interested in the XF705. If you have an XF705 do you use if for HLG or HDR?

Joachim Claus · March 31st, 2019, 03:03 AM

All clips were shot with Rec.709 color gamut.
Clips A003C032 and A003C041 were shot with CLog3, clip A003C074 was shot in infrared.

Joachim

Bob Safay · April 1st, 2019, 04:14 PM

I thought the official Canon introductory video stated that you could import H.265 directly into Davinci Resolve. Can anyone verify this?

Joachim Claus · April 2nd, 2019, 06:52 AM

@Bob,

yes, I can confirm, that Resolve can link to Canon XF-HEVC files. However, I think this is only true for the Studio Version (paid version), not for the free version. I cannot check this, as I have only installed the studio version.

Joachim

Bryan Worsley · April 2nd, 2019, 08:19 AM

Yes, you need the (paid) Studio version. To work with these files in the free version, you'd need to transcode to a 10bit 422 intermediate - Prores, DNxHR HQX, Cineform etc.

The sample clips were from this Red Shark review:

https://www.redsharknews.com/product...future-in-mind

Bob Safay · April 3rd, 2019, 01:55 PM

Bryan, thank you for that information. I was looking at the C200 but really need to be messing with different lens and mic's. I have had the XF300 so the change over should be easy. Plus, I have been working with Davinci Resolve for several months and I really enjoy it. Thanks again. Bob

Bryan Worsley · April 5th, 2019, 10:42 PM

You're welcome.

Andy Urtusuastegui · November 4th, 2019, 11:42 PM

Adobe just released Premiere Pro v14.0 It now supports Canon XF-HEVC

Martin Duffy · February 19th, 2020, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawrence Kong

and Edius 9 support all Canon XF705 color space

709, 2020, canon log3

will try to canon log soon

Does your PC struggle with this?

Christopher Young · February 20th, 2020, 10:49 AM

A lot of PCs have issues with H.265. Okay as an acquisition format but it was never ever designed as an editing format. Its primary design was for a light compact small payload delivery codec. Playback on computers is one of the reasons Sony are not using it in their cameras.

"While a newer codec, such as H.265/HEVC may be more suitable for UHD, 4K or 8K transmission, it is not automatically the best choice for production environments today. The burden of computation of HEVC makes it almost impossible to handle in “real-time” operations without very powerful processing devices. In comparison, H.264 is perfectly suited to demanding professional applications at up to 4K and Sony has already achieved a very high level of image quality (over 45dBs of SNR) with XAVC-L422. The rate of XAVC-L422, although around 30% to 50% higher than HEVC, is completely manageable from a computational viewpoint for editing, picture manipulation etc. and for transport around today’s broadcast infrastructures.Technology and solutions vendors can also implement H.264 (XAVC L422) without the expensive and complex -to-arrange patent payments required for various aspects of the use of H.265."

Sony white paper:

https://cvp.com/pdf/sony-pzw-4000-whitepaper.pdf

Chris Young

Ron Evans · February 20th, 2020, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawrence Kong

I am using Edius 9 to edit Canon XF705 H.265 4K 160M footage, no transcode needed

Only true for QS enabled Intel CPU. Without QS EDIUS struggles. I have EDIUS 8.53WG and EDIUS 9.51WG as well as Resolve Studio 16. My Threadripper 1920 with 1080Ti GPU will play h265 in EDIUS but scrubbing is not that good. Resolve has no problems playing Canon h265 files on my PC though.

Christopher Young · February 21st, 2020, 01:17 AM

With Resolve on a OC'd 5.2Ghz delidded PC I'm having zero problems in Resolve but the problem is many people have off the shelf PCs that on average are just not up to the task of handling H.265. I'm also an Edius user and basically if Edius which is one of the best playback NLEs because of its well designed software struggles with H.265 then a lot of other editing software has real problems. Especially if trying to edit multi-track 4K. Also as far as hardware QuickSync CPU encoding along with Nvidia's NVENC encoding both leave a bit to be desired as they have a hard job of creating hardware encoded files to match hi quality software encoding especially at lower bit rates. Plus neither QS or NVENC support the much better x264 library for encoding. Again very obvious on low bit rate files.

Chris Young

Ron Evans · February 21st, 2020, 04:14 PM

EDIUS works really well with recent QS enabled Intel CPU that will decode h264 and h265 for timeline playback especially if overclocked. There are two issues here. Decode for timeline playback and encoding for export. Totally different issues. EDIUS is my main editor too.

I have no problems with mp4 h265 in either EDIUS or Resolve at HD or UHD. EDIUS will not play very well h265 MXF files from the Canon in HD and will not play the UHD MXF file at all. However this file will play slowly in Resolve Studio 16. My system is Threadripper 1920 12 core at stock clock with 1080Ti GPU 32G RAM and fast SSD's.

Christopher Young · February 21st, 2020, 09:42 PM

On the two systems I'm running I find the NVENC decoder on the Nvidia cards performs better than the Intel QS for playback but I guess this can vary from system to system dependent on configuration. In Resolve I get smooth play back of 60p UHD HEVC 10-bit 4:2:2 Canon files albeit only at around 44 fps and that is with the paltry bit rate of 175Mbps which those files are. These don't have the bit rate for any really heavy manipulation in post and when you do apply much in the way of grading to them any semblance of reasonable playback goes out the window.

Whereas with 50/60p either Canon XF AVC or Sony XAVC which are both H.264 10-bit 4:2:2 files I can have two tracks of real time full resolution full frame rate playback with a combination of LUTs and grades. I just don't see any benefit of having to work with H.265 files which totally hamper you when you have fast turn around network jobs to deliver on a tight schedule. As far as the delivery encoding goes I still much prefer x264. Or if the client wants 265 a 10-bit HEVC x265 encodes produces a better result than HEVC H.265. For me it comes down to client acceptance of files. It must be at least 12 years since I've had any issues with 264 deliveries but a couple of times I've had "producers" who requested H.265 delivery getting back to me saying "Oh my client can't play the files". For me HEVC remains okay for acquisition but I either batch convert to ProRes or preferably Cineform with its wavelet encoding for a much more rugged superior work post experience. I don't have time for the impediments of working with HEVC in real time.

Chris Young

March 22nd, 2019, 09:06 PM	#16
Bryan Worsley Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 439	Re: Canon XF705 and H.265 ffmpeg now supports decode of Canon XF-HEVC.mxf files: git.videolan.org Git - ffmpeg.git/commitdiff It's implemented in the Zeranoe ffmpeg nightly builds: https://ffmpeg.zeranoe.com/builds/ Sample XF-705 clips to test: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/uam3s1bvr...J8pDjz8la?dl=0

March 29th, 2019, 03:25 PM	#17
Charles W. Hull Major Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Canyon Country, CA Posts: 445	Re: Canon XF705 and H.265 Do you know if any of the sample clips are HLG or HDR? I may be the only one but this is why I'm interested in the XF705. If you have an XF705 do you use if for HLG or HDR?

March 31st, 2019, 03:03 AM	#18
Joachim Claus Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany Posts: 132	Re: Canon XF705 and H.265 All clips were shot with Rec.709 color gamut. Clips A003C032 and A003C041 were shot with CLog3, clip A003C074 was shot in infrared. Joachim

April 1st, 2019, 04:14 PM	#19
Bob Safay Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 1,558	Re: Canon XF705 and H.265 I thought the official Canon introductory video stated that you could import H.265 directly into Davinci Resolve. Can anyone verify this?

April 2nd, 2019, 06:52 AM	#20
Joachim Claus Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany Posts: 132	Re: Canon XF705 and H.265 @Bob, yes, I can confirm, that Resolve can link to Canon XF-HEVC files. However, I think this is only true for the Studio Version (paid version), not for the free version. I cannot check this, as I have only installed the studio version. Joachim

April 2nd, 2019, 08:19 AM	#21
Bryan Worsley Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 439	Re: Canon XF705 and H.265 Yes, you need the (paid) Studio version. To work with these files in the free version, you'd need to transcode to a 10bit 422 intermediate - Prores, DNxHR HQX, Cineform etc. The sample clips were from this Red Shark review: https://www.redsharknews.com/product...future-in-mind

April 3rd, 2019, 01:55 PM	#22
Bob Safay Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 1,558	Re: Canon XF705 and H.265 Bryan, thank you for that information. I was looking at the C200 but really need to be messing with different lens and mic's. I have had the XF300 so the change over should be easy. Plus, I have been working with Davinci Resolve for several months and I really enjoy it. Thanks again. Bob

April 5th, 2019, 10:42 PM	#23
Bryan Worsley Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 439	Re: Canon XF705 and H.265 You're welcome.

November 4th, 2019, 11:42 PM	#24
Andy Urtusuastegui Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Foothill Ranch, CA Posts: 166	Re: Canon XF705 and H.265 Adobe just released Premiere Pro v14.0 It now supports Canon XF-HEVC

February 20th, 2020, 10:49 AM	#26
Christopher Young Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,568	Re: Canon XF705 and H.265 A lot of PCs have issues with H.265. Okay as an acquisition format but it was never ever designed as an editing format. Its primary design was for a light compact small payload delivery codec. Playback on computers is one of the reasons Sony are not using it in their cameras. "While a newer codec, such as H.265/HEVC may be more suitable for UHD, 4K or 8K transmission, it is not automatically the best choice for production environments today. The burden of computation of HEVC makes it almost impossible to handle in “real-time” operations without very powerful processing devices. In comparison, H.264 is perfectly suited to demanding professional applications at up to 4K and Sony has already achieved a very high level of image quality (over 45dBs of SNR) with XAVC-L422. The rate of XAVC-L422, although around 30% to 50% higher than HEVC, is completely manageable from a computational viewpoint for editing, picture manipulation etc. and for transport around today’s broadcast infrastructures.Technology and solutions vendors can also implement H.264 (XAVC L422) without the expensive and complex -to-arrange patent payments required for various aspects of the use of H.265." Sony white paper: https://cvp.com/pdf/sony-pzw-4000-whitepaper.pdf Chris Young

February 21st, 2020, 01:17 AM	#28
Christopher Young Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,568	Re: Canon XF705 and H.265 With Resolve on a OC'd 5.2Ghz delidded PC I'm having zero problems in Resolve but the problem is many people have off the shelf PCs that on average are just not up to the task of handling H.265. I'm also an Edius user and basically if Edius which is one of the best playback NLEs because of its well designed software struggles with H.265 then a lot of other editing software has real problems. Especially if trying to edit multi-track 4K. Also as far as hardware QuickSync CPU encoding along with Nvidia's NVENC encoding both leave a bit to be desired as they have a hard job of creating hardware encoded files to match hi quality software encoding especially at lower bit rates. Plus neither QS or NVENC support the much better x264 library for encoding. Again very obvious on low bit rate files. Chris Young

February 21st, 2020, 04:14 PM	#29
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: Canon XF705 and H.265 EDIUS works really well with recent QS enabled Intel CPU that will decode h264 and h265 for timeline playback especially if overclocked. There are two issues here. Decode for timeline playback and encoding for export. Totally different issues. EDIUS is my main editor too. I have no problems with mp4 h265 in either EDIUS or Resolve at HD or UHD. EDIUS will not play very well h265 MXF files from the Canon in HD and will not play the UHD MXF file at all. However this file will play slowly in Resolve Studio 16. My system is Threadripper 1920 12 core at stock clock with 1080Ti GPU 32G RAM and fast SSD's.

February 21st, 2020, 09:42 PM	#30
Christopher Young Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,568	Re: Canon XF705 and H.265 On the two systems I'm running I find the NVENC decoder on the Nvidia cards performs better than the Intel QS for playback but I guess this can vary from system to system dependent on configuration. In Resolve I get smooth play back of 60p UHD HEVC 10-bit 4:2:2 Canon files albeit only at around 44 fps and that is with the paltry bit rate of 175Mbps which those files are. These don't have the bit rate for any really heavy manipulation in post and when you do apply much in the way of grading to them any semblance of reasonable playback goes out the window. Whereas with 50/60p either Canon XF AVC or Sony XAVC which are both H.264 10-bit 4:2:2 files I can have two tracks of real time full resolution full frame rate playback with a combination of LUTs and grades. I just don't see any benefit of having to work with H.265 files which totally hamper you when you have fast turn around network jobs to deliver on a tight schedule. As far as the delivery encoding goes I still much prefer x264. Or if the client wants 265 a 10-bit HEVC x265 encodes produces a better result than HEVC H.265. For me it comes down to client acceptance of files. It must be at least 12 years since I've had any issues with 264 deliveries but a couple of times I've had "producers" who requested H.265 delivery getting back to me saying "Oh my client can't play the files". For me HEVC remains okay for acquisition but I either batch convert to ProRes or preferably Cineform with its wavelet encoding for a much more rugged superior work post experience. I don't have time for the impediments of working with HEVC in real time. Chris Young Last edited by Christopher Young; February 22nd, 2020 at 01:27 AM.