XF105 HDMI & LCD Color issue at DVinfo.net

Al Bergstein · May 14th, 2012, 12:12 AM

Q. on HDMI color vs. LCD. Having recently bought an XF105 I was just doing an interesting test today. I was running HDMI out to a Marshall V-LCD50-HDI and notice that no matter what I do the XF105 LCD is noticeably shifted to emphazing the greens. I tried numerous CP files and none of them changed the green bias. I can look at the real scene, then at the Marshall and they match, the Canon is signficantly greener in the grasses, etc. I put a 7D on the same scene and the Marshall & 7D tend to match. Thoughts on how to make the 100/105 match? Changing the CP files changes the look in both monitors, but not for the better. Is there something about CP files I'm not getting? I tried manipulating the LCD color settings, to no avail. This has significant meaning for field use of this camera, as I'm concerned I'm seeing a much more saturated scene in the LCD than what the HDMI output shows is being recorded. What am I missing in this analysis? What do I correct to match this?

Larry Becker · May 14th, 2012, 10:19 AM

Hi, Al,
I have a Marshall V-LCD50-HDMI - which I THINK is the same as the HDI you mention (I had to buy the sun screen separately last year - not included... grrr...), and I had the opposite problem. I ASSUMED that the Marshal's colors were more correct than the XF300's screen and viewfinder - and I was wrong.. My problem was that I was judging what I saw around me, rather than what the camera actually saw and came into Premiere Pro. The Marshall's colors looked warm and wonderful and made the people look nicely tanned and so on - but the camera wasn't seeing that, and honestly, it wasn't really there, so my white balance ON THE RECORDED VIDEO was way off when I judged by the Marshall. The XF300 had the colors about right. Based on the Marshall's color, I had a real mess in Colorista II to get the colors back to what they should be.

So - I went on a quest to try to get the Marshall's colors to agree with the XF300 (same issue with the Canon 5DII, but not so important because I shoot raw anyway and can adjust WB in Photoshop - not so on video yet without doing violence to the footage). I spent a couple of hours on this, and tested all the settings I could find in the Marshall and finally decided that the CLOSEST I could get to the monitor was the "Linear" Setting. It seems to pass things to the monitor without changing the signal much - still JUST SLIGHTLY WARMER THAN THE LCDS on the Canons, but not bad. I tried all the color temp settings and so on - Linear seems the most neutral and closest to the Canon's output - which is what you want. You don't want to judge what you record based on a false reading of the image - or even what you think you see. It's like trying to use Photoshop on a computer that doesn't have a calibrated monitor - an utter waste of time and exercise in futility.

Speaking of which - is your computer system color calibrated? You want to look into that if it isn't. I use something called colormunki (I tried a real monkey, but, well, let's not go there... sorry...).

To try to wind this up... My advice is to bring your footage into your computer system and see which is closer to what shows up there ON A CALIBRATED MONITOR... You really want to see what the camera is actually capturing and bringing into Premiere Pro or whatever you're working with. Granted my experience is with the XF 300 and 5DII with the Marshall, but I suspect that it's similar for you - but my advice is to go with what what matches up best in your NLE, not with what you think you see when you're shooting. Have you made a comparison with your NLE and what the Marshall/XF105 sees? Just curious...

Just my .02. YMMV
Larry Becker

Al Bergstein · May 14th, 2012, 10:56 PM

Thx Larry, I'll explore your thoughts more over the next week. Good food 4 thought.

Vincent Oliver · May 15th, 2012, 06:15 AM

Another solution would be to use the SMPTE colour bars for calibrating your monitor, do a Google search on this topic or use the link below, you should be able to set up your video screens with no problem. The Canon XF300/305 produces colour bars in camera, use the Type 2 set although they are not the latest HD version.

http://spareroommedia.com/video/monitor_setup.html

May 14th, 2012, 12:12 AM	#1
Al Bergstein Major Player Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Port Townsend, WA Posts: 456	XF105 HDMI & LCD Color issue Q. on HDMI color vs. LCD. Having recently bought an XF105 I was just doing an interesting test today. I was running HDMI out to a Marshall V-LCD50-HDI and notice that no matter what I do the XF105 LCD is noticeably shifted to emphazing the greens. I tried numerous CP files and none of them changed the green bias. I can look at the real scene, then at the Marshall and they match, the Canon is signficantly greener in the grasses, etc. I put a 7D on the same scene and the Marshall & 7D tend to match. Thoughts on how to make the 100/105 match? Changing the CP files changes the look in both monitors, but not for the better. Is there something about CP files I'm not getting? I tried manipulating the LCD color settings, to no avail. This has significant meaning for field use of this camera, as I'm concerned I'm seeing a much more saturated scene in the LCD than what the HDMI output shows is being recorded. What am I missing in this analysis? What do I correct to match this? __________________ Al Upper left hand corner of the map

May 14th, 2012, 10:19 AM	#2
Larry Becker Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 78	Re: XF105 HDMI & LCD Color issue Hi, Al, I have a Marshall V-LCD50-HDMI - which I THINK is the same as the HDI you mention (I had to buy the sun screen separately last year - not included... grrr...), and I had the opposite problem. I ASSUMED that the Marshal's colors were more correct than the XF300's screen and viewfinder - and I was wrong.. My problem was that I was judging what I saw around me, rather than what the camera actually saw and came into Premiere Pro. The Marshall's colors looked warm and wonderful and made the people look nicely tanned and so on - but the camera wasn't seeing that, and honestly, it wasn't really there, so my white balance ON THE RECORDED VIDEO was way off when I judged by the Marshall. The XF300 had the colors about right. Based on the Marshall's color, I had a real mess in Colorista II to get the colors back to what they should be. So - I went on a quest to try to get the Marshall's colors to agree with the XF300 (same issue with the Canon 5DII, but not so important because I shoot raw anyway and can adjust WB in Photoshop - not so on video yet without doing violence to the footage). I spent a couple of hours on this, and tested all the settings I could find in the Marshall and finally decided that the CLOSEST I could get to the monitor was the "Linear" Setting. It seems to pass things to the monitor without changing the signal much - still JUST SLIGHTLY WARMER THAN THE LCDS on the Canons, but not bad. I tried all the color temp settings and so on - Linear seems the most neutral and closest to the Canon's output - which is what you want. You don't want to judge what you record based on a false reading of the image - or even what you think you see. It's like trying to use Photoshop on a computer that doesn't have a calibrated monitor - an utter waste of time and exercise in futility. Speaking of which - is your computer system color calibrated? You want to look into that if it isn't. I use something called colormunki (I tried a real monkey, but, well, let's not go there... sorry...). To try to wind this up... My advice is to bring your footage into your computer system and see which is closer to what shows up there ON A CALIBRATED MONITOR... You really want to see what the camera is actually capturing and bringing into Premiere Pro or whatever you're working with. Granted my experience is with the XF 300 and 5DII with the Marshall, but I suspect that it's similar for you - but my advice is to go with what what matches up best in your NLE, not with what you think you see when you're shooting. Have you made a comparison with your NLE and what the Marshall/XF105 sees? Just curious... Just my .02. YMMV Larry Becker

May 14th, 2012, 10:56 PM	#3
Al Bergstein Major Player Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Port Townsend, WA Posts: 456	Re: XF105 HDMI & LCD Color issue Thx Larry, I'll explore your thoughts more over the next week. Good food 4 thought. __________________ Al Upper left hand corner of the map

May 15th, 2012, 06:15 AM	#4
Vincent Oliver Trustee Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chislehurst, London Posts: 1,724	Re: XF105 HDMI & LCD Color issue Another solution would be to use the SMPTE colour bars for calibrating your monitor, do a Google search on this topic or use the link below, you should be able to set up your video screens with no problem. The Canon XF300/305 produces colour bars in camera, use the Type 2 set although they are not the latest HD version. http://spareroommedia.com/video/monitor_setup.html __________________ Eyes are a deaf man’s ears. Ears are a blind man’s eyes