Canon introduces XF105 and XF100

Buba Kastorski · February 9th, 2011, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Quinones

Hey Buba;
Did you get it. Post your impressions. I like to know. I thinking about getting one too.

as soon as it available, still couple weeks to go :)

Mark Johnson · February 16th, 2011, 01:45 AM

One of the exhibitors at BVE in London yesterday had the XF105 in stock. Both they and others said that the XF100s should be in stock next week.

Mark

Philip Lipetz · February 16th, 2011, 04:05 AM

There are two videos taken with an UK XF105 production model.

is ungraded indoors.

is outdoors and heavily graded with Magic Bullet.

Federico Perale · February 16th, 2011, 04:33 AM

looks good to me.
especially surprised (positively) by the opening shot in the ungraded one.
low light, very low grain

mmm can't wait to hear first users impressions

Dom Stevenson · February 16th, 2011, 01:16 PM

At the London BVE today I had a chance to play with the xf100 alongside the cheaper avchd Xa10. No competition really, as the cheaper camera had nothing like the build quality or on camera features. It is significantly smaller, but has a plastically feel to it compared to the XF, while most the buttons i'd want to use are in a touch screen menu.

Later i ran into a guy i know who's vastly more knowledgeable about camera's than i am, who proceeded to rubbish the Canon XF models generally, saying that they were "not really 4:2:2" at all, and that Canon's contribution was "too little too late". He said that after extensive testing he'd come to the conclusion that the xf300 was way behind the 4 year old EX1 and suggested i give the Canon's a miss. He also felt that Canon must have bribed someone at the BBC to get a thumbs up from them since a 1/3 inch sensor couldn't produce the color info Canon was claiming.

Since i'd pretty much decided the XF100 would be my next camera i was left a little confused.

Of course everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but this was the first time i'd heard a contrary view of what i'd planned to make my next purchase. In fact holding the camera in my hands, and sending some clips to Apple's Color for grading, i'm still planning to buy this camera, but it did give me pause for thought.

Erik Norgaard · February 16th, 2011, 01:45 PM

Hi:

I tried to backtrack on this thread but didn't find anything conclusive. Have you confirmed the price point at the BVE? I have found €3000 on fotoboom.com (Spain), incl 18% VAT, at ProAV it goes at £2,634 or approx €3120.

On a side note: I don't follow prices once I've bought, does Canon have a tradition of keeping the price the first ... 2-6 months or 1 year? Having the camera now would be great, but if there is reason to expect that within 2-3 months the price will fall significantly (more than 10%) then I might consider waiting.

Thanks, Erik

Dom Stevenson · February 16th, 2011, 03:20 PM

Erik

Those prices are average for here in the UK. It will be on Ebay soon for a minus VAT price from Hong Kong i suspect if you want to take a chance with that. Two and a half k should be a decent price to buy from a respected dealer in the UK.

As far a s price drops go, it depends how the camera sells initially, and what kind of competition may be on the horizon. I wouldn't expect a significant price drop in the first year, because Canon make most of their money on stills camera's and consumer camcorders, so i doubt they will be in a hurry to shift units at a discount. They're also the only manufacturer producing a 50 mbs camera in this price range, and probably figure they don't need to compromise on price, so if you want to buy it, there's no point leaving it IMO.

Mark Fry · February 16th, 2011, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom Stevenson

At the London BVE today I had a chance to play with the xf100 alongside the cheaper avchd Xa10. No competition really, as the cheaper camera had nothing like the build quality or on camera features. It is significantly smaller, but has a plastically feel to it compared to the XF, while most the buttons i'd want to use are in a touch screen menu.

Later i ran into a guy i know who's vastly more knowledgeable about camera's than i am, who proceeded to rubbish the Canon XF models generally, saying that they were "not really 4:2:2" at all, and that Canon's contribution was "too little too late". He said that after extensive testing he'd come to the conclusion that the xf300 was way behind the 4 year old EX1 and suggested i give the Canon's a miss. He also felt that Canon must have bribed someone at the BBC to get a thumbs up from them since a 1/3 inch sensor couldn't produce the color info Canon was claiming.

Since i'd pretty much decided the XF100 would be my next camera i was left a little confused.

Of course everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but this was the first time i'd heard a contrary view of what i'd planned to make my next purchase. In fact holding the camera in my hands, and sending some clips to Apple's Color for grading, i'm still planning to buy this camera, but it did give me pause for thought.

The BBC approval of the XF300 was, in part, a result of careful tests by a well-respected chap called Alan Roberts, who's also a regular contributor to the DV Doctor forum. The remarkable quality that he reported came from scientific and repeatable measurements. Other, more anecdotal, reports I've read that compare the EX1 and XF300 suggest the Canon is easily a match for the larger-chipped Sony, but like any camera, each has strengths and weaknesses.

Don't let your rather dismissive friend put you off trying the XF100. If it does what you need, if you like the look of the output, if it is convenient for you to use, and if you can get a good price....

Dom Stevenson · February 16th, 2011, 05:53 PM

Mark Fry

He hasn't put me off Mark. Still very interested in the camera, but this is someone whose opinion i've always valued, so it has given me pause for thought. I've had great experience with Canon stuff, and have owned an XHA1 and now the 5D mii, though i have to say i'm looking forwards to going back to a "proper" video camera after the 5D.

This guy knows a lot of people who work for the BBC and says they only use the XF300 for SD stuff as the camera is not up to the mark as an HD camera. Perhaps there are contributors here who know better?

Anyway, this is the 2nd time i've had the camera in my hands, and it just feels like a piece of kit i can get along with, which is good enough for me. I'm not into resolution charts and pixel counting etc....

Lou Bruno · February 16th, 2011, 06:19 PM

There will be a very limited dealer release in the next 48 hours to authorized Canon dealers for the XF-100/105. The 105 will be very limited.

Federico Perale · February 17th, 2011, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom Stevenson

He also felt that Canon must have bribed someone at the BBC to get a thumbs up from them since a 1/3 inch sensor couldn't produce the color info Canon was claiming.

pretty strong words

the tension keeps building to see how these lil' ones really perform

Philip Lipetz · February 17th, 2011, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Wilkinson

I spent a LOT of time looking and handling the XA10, the XF100 and 105 on the Canon stand (and another) at BVE yesterday. Man it was busy at Earls Court!

Thanks Andy for this hands on ergonomic report. A great cam has to feel like an extension of your consciousness, and it sounds like the baby XFs hit that sweet spot. Are we looking at the next DVX100? Did Canon deliberately setup such a similarity between the two names!

I talked to some people who handled the XF105 prototype and they indicated there was some problem with the audio on last shot playback from within recording mode. Not sure if that changed in the production run.

Federico Perale · February 17th, 2011, 06:55 AM

yes I had read this one.
looks promising from one of the few chaps out there who actually has used it and not just read about it

Nigel Barker · February 17th, 2011, 09:10 AM

I was able to handle to XF105 at BVE earlier in the week. It is a lovely little camera. Much nicer than the tiny but overpriced XA10. The guy on the Canon stand said that 40 had arrived in the UK on Monday. They currently have 15 in stock at CVP Canon XF105 (XF-105) Professional Camcorder - MPEG-2 50Mbps, 4:2:2 codec with Infrared mode and 3D Shooting Assist functions and studio connectivity They had 16 but I just bought one & it will be with me tomorrow morning. The price is £2,799 + VAT (sales tax) so a tax inclusive price of £3,358.80. We already have an XF305 so the XF105 is the perfect little companion.

Federico Perale · February 17th, 2011, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Barker

I was able to handle to XF105 at BVE earlier in the week. It is a lovely little camera. Much nicer than the tiny but overpriced XA10. The guy on the Canon stand said that 40 had arrived in the UK on Monday. They currently have 15 in stock at CVP Canon XF105 (XF-105) Professional Camcorder - MPEG-2 50Mbps, 4:2:2 codec with Infrared mode and 3D Shooting Assist functions and studio connectivity They had 16 but I just bought one & it will be with me tomorrow morning. The price is £2,799 + VAT (sales tax) so a tax inclusive price of £3,358.80. We already have an XF305 so the XF105 is the perfect little companion.

finally someone will own it and tell real opinions : )
can't wait for your review!!!!

February 16th, 2011, 04:05 AM	#243
Philip Lipetz Major Player Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 273	There are two videos taken with an UK XF105 production model. Carved, Cast and Modelled at The Barber on Vimeo is ungraded indoors. Two fellas on Vimeo is outdoors and heavily graded with Magic Bullet.

February 16th, 2011, 05:53 PM	#249
Dom Stevenson Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London UK Posts: 430	Don't let your rather dismissive friend put you off trying the XF100. Mark Fry He hasn't put me off Mark. Still very interested in the camera, but this is someone whose opinion i've always valued, so it has given me pause for thought. I've had great experience with Canon stuff, and have owned an XHA1 and now the 5D mii, though i have to say i'm looking forwards to going back to a "proper" video camera after the 5D. This guy knows a lot of people who work for the BBC and says they only use the XF300 for SD stuff as the camera is not up to the mark as an HD camera. Perhaps there are contributors here who know better? Anyway, this is the 2nd time i've had the camera in my hands, and it just feels like a piece of kit i can get along with, which is good enough for me. I'm not into resolution charts and pixel counting etc....

February 16th, 2011, 06:19 PM	#250
Lou Bruno Go Cycle Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Huntington, NY Posts: 815	There will be a very limited dealer release in the next 48 hours to authorized Canon dealers for the XF-100/105. The 105 will be very limited. __________________ Lou Bruno

February 16th, 2011, 01:45 AM	#242
Mark Johnson New Boot Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Winchester, England Posts: 7	One of the exhibitors at BVE in London yesterday had the XF105 in stock. Both they and others said that the XF100s should be in stock next week. Mark

February 16th, 2011, 04:33 AM	#244
Federico Perale Major Player Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: London Posts: 410	looks good to me. especially surprised (positively) by the opening shot in the ungraded one. low light, very low grain mmm can't wait to hear first users impressions

February 16th, 2011, 01:16 PM	#245
Dom Stevenson Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London UK Posts: 430	At the London BVE today I had a chance to play with the xf100 alongside the cheaper avchd Xa10. No competition really, as the cheaper camera had nothing like the build quality or on camera features. It is significantly smaller, but has a plastically feel to it compared to the XF, while most the buttons i'd want to use are in a touch screen menu. Later i ran into a guy i know who's vastly more knowledgeable about camera's than i am, who proceeded to rubbish the Canon XF models generally, saying that they were "not really 4:2:2" at all, and that Canon's contribution was "too little too late". He said that after extensive testing he'd come to the conclusion that the xf300 was way behind the 4 year old EX1 and suggested i give the Canon's a miss. He also felt that Canon must have bribed someone at the BBC to get a thumbs up from them since a 1/3 inch sensor couldn't produce the color info Canon was claiming. Since i'd pretty much decided the XF100 would be my next camera i was left a little confused. Of course everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but this was the first time i'd heard a contrary view of what i'd planned to make my next purchase. In fact holding the camera in my hands, and sending some clips to Apple's Color for grading, i'm still planning to buy this camera, but it did give me pause for thought.

February 16th, 2011, 01:45 PM	#246
Erik Norgaard Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 238	Hi: I tried to backtrack on this thread but didn't find anything conclusive. Have you confirmed the price point at the BVE? I have found €3000 on fotoboom.com (Spain), incl 18% VAT, at ProAV it goes at £2,634 or approx €3120. On a side note: I don't follow prices once I've bought, does Canon have a tradition of keeping the price the first ... 2-6 months or 1 year? Having the camera now would be great, but if there is reason to expect that within 2-3 months the price will fall significantly (more than 10%) then I might consider waiting. Thanks, Erik

February 16th, 2011, 03:20 PM	#247
Dom Stevenson Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London UK Posts: 430	Erik Those prices are average for here in the UK. It will be on Ebay soon for a minus VAT price from Hong Kong i suspect if you want to take a chance with that. Two and a half k should be a decent price to buy from a respected dealer in the UK. As far a s price drops go, it depends how the camera sells initially, and what kind of competition may be on the horizon. I wouldn't expect a significant price drop in the first year, because Canon make most of their money on stills camera's and consumer camcorders, so i doubt they will be in a hurry to shift units at a discount. They're also the only manufacturer producing a 50 mbs camera in this price range, and probably figure they don't need to compromise on price, so if you want to buy it, there's no point leaving it IMO.

February 17th, 2011, 06:55 AM	#253
Federico Perale Major Player Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: London Posts: 410	yes I had read this one. looks promising from one of the few chaps out there who actually has used it and not just read about it

February 17th, 2011, 09:10 AM	#254
Nigel Barker Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Posts: 3,531	I was able to handle to XF105 at BVE earlier in the week. It is a lovely little camera. Much nicer than the tiny but overpriced XA10. The guy on the Canon stand said that 40 had arrived in the UK on Monday. They currently have 15 in stock at CVP Canon XF105 (XF-105) Professional Camcorder - MPEG-2 50Mbps, 4:2:2 codec with Infrared mode and 3D Shooting Assist functions and studio connectivity They had 16 but I just bought one & it will be with me tomorrow morning. The price is £2,799 + VAT (sales tax) so a tax inclusive price of £3,358.80. We already have an XF305 so the XF105 is the perfect little companion.