Canon introduces XF105 and XF100

David Heath · January 21st, 2011, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett Munoz

I saw some comparisons of this camera vs the EX3 and 1 and it appears that is has more detail. We will see.

Folowing on from what Alistair said, it's just not possible for the XF100 to have more real detail than an EX or an XF300.

Beware of artificial detail enhancement giving a false impression. One of the best thing about the 3 chip1920x1080 cameras is that they are so naturally sharp that the detail enhancement can be turned right down to give a fine "natural" look whilst remaining sharp. If that was the case, and it was compared to an XF100 with detail turned up, the XF100 might superficially look "sharper", but it would be a false "video look" sharpness, not real detail.

Rob Katz · January 21st, 2011, 07:17 PM

david-

under proper lighting would a single chip camera like the xf105/xf100 have "enough" real detail?

i know we all spend soooo much time discussing cameras under low light situation.

but for what i do, the difference between low light and enough light is adding one instrument.

i wonder how the image quality of xf105/xf100 cameras will be with "enough" light.

ymmv

be well

rob

Andy Wilkinson · January 22nd, 2011, 10:04 AM

Following on from what Alister and David have written, my GUESS is that that comparison mentioned by Brett may have been from, e.g. the 1200 Lux comparitive pictures on sites such as Slashcam. If you set up their comparison page with say EX1 or EX1r from the drop down list on one side and the XF100 on the other drop down list then, to my eyes, the XF100 looks to have more resolution (you can compare the pictures from both cams side by side on the same screen). There are also chart comparison shots, lens distortion shots etc. Comparison of the ISO charts shows the EX1r to be better than the XF100, at least to me, even if the pictures suggest the opposite.

Heck, if you compare the tiny little 3 chip, high-end consumer Panasonic TM700 against the XDCAM EXs on the Slashcam site then you might be also surprised!

I guess it really depends on how much you trust camcorder review sites like Slashcam are able to set up the cameras correctly. Certainly, in theory (as has been pointed out by those far more knowlegeable on sensor design than I) the XF100/105 with it's single 1920x1080 sensor should come in under the 3 chipped full raster XDCAM EXs with respect to REAL resolution. The Slashcam site also has data for the XF300.

Slashcam site is in the link below so you can draw your own conclusions.

Camcorder test charts comparison

David Heath · January 22nd, 2011, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Wilkinson

I guess it really depends on how much you trust camcorder review sites like Slashcam are able to set up the cameras correctly. ........ Slashcam site is in the link below so you can draw your own conclusions.

Well, it's interesting to compare the EX1, the EX3 and the EX1R amongst themseles on that site. You'd think you were looking at three totally different cameras, not three which substantially share the same front end!

Compare the EX1 with the EX3 on the res chart wedge, and they don't seem noticeably different for real sharpness, (not surprisingly!) but the EX3 has vastly more detail enhancement than the EX1.

The trouble is that there is no "correct" and "incorrect" in terms of the setups in some ways - it becomes a matter of preference. But you do need to have some sort of yardstick if you going to attempt to make such comparisons, and the level of detail enhancement is a good example of this.

The EX1R also seems to have been set to a very strange colour balance.......

Wacharapong Chiowanich · January 22nd, 2011, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett Munoz

I I saw some comparisons of this camera vs the EX3 and 1 and it appears that is has more detail. We will see.

There is an A/B side-by-side test between the XF100 and XF300 on YouTube. It's a very good test with colorimetry looking almost identical between the two cameras but the resolution difference is noticeable. The poster didn't post the detail on the settings, though. I guess there's no surprise why one camera can both weigh as well as cost only half that of the other while still claiming the same paper output specs of 1920x1080 frame size and 4:2:2 color sampling at 50 Mbps.

Brett Munoz · January 25th, 2011, 07:43 PM

You worry too much All.. I have seen the side by side comparison with the XF300, slightly less detail and the bokeh doesn't appear as smooth. I got it mainly as a B, sometimes A cam. Will work great as a compact on the Merlin. The detail still looks great and awesome low light. That little 50Mbps CMOS chip is going to rock! Sure, not true 4:2:2 due to the single chip design but who cares, its looks the squat and no one will ever be able to tell except us video dorks.

Federico Perale · January 26th, 2011, 03:58 AM

haha great comment Brett : )

Andy Wilkinson · January 26th, 2011, 01:28 PM

Well, if you wanted to know how well the XF105 renders skin tones in artificial light with it's single chip I guess this is a very good example to view.... as it's a catwalk parade of ladies in underwear as the thumbnail will no doubt show ;-) He has posted another video with the XF105 on Vimeo too (pretty similar subject matter). Sadly, no info on camera settings on the Vimeo pages. Well you can't have everything! Wonder why France seems to be getting the baby XFs a bit early?

Glen Vandermolen · January 26th, 2011, 02:26 PM

Whoa!
Who knew a single chip cam could have such..er..dynamic range and...umm...great gamma curves?

The big mystery is why there's a guy sitting at a table - with his back to the show the entire time? Isn't he interested in the camera???

Best camera demo video ever!

Tania Ratu · January 27th, 2011, 09:12 PM

I don't think he loves cams like we do. I can't figure out what could be so distracting when you could be checking out a real canon xf cam in action. I agree the gamma curves look pretty amazing.
Cheers
Ratu

Steve Wolla · January 28th, 2011, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom Stevenson

Thanks for that Jason. This camera looks fantastic, and a great option for people like me who used to own cameras like the PDX10 a few years back. It'll be interesting to see how it compares with the competition, but knowing Canon it'll be a winner.

I'd like to know how it compares to the Panasonic HMC40, especially in terms of low light performance.

Federico Perale · February 7th, 2011, 06:16 AM

so has anyone received it? some websites in the UK now mention a 1st of March availability

Buba Kastorski · February 7th, 2011, 08:46 AM

Feb 23 here in Toronto, I'm in line already :)

Mike Quinones · February 8th, 2011, 08:13 PM

Hey Buba;
Did you get it. Post your impressions. I like to know. I thinking about getting one too.

Peter Erfurt · February 9th, 2011, 06:17 AM

Hi all,

I had a 105 on order until today to be used as a B cam on a trip on Feb. 17th, but my dealer (Proav in the UK has just changed the delivery schedule till "Delivery early March", so I had to cancel the order.

Seems like there's a delay from Canon's side.

/peter

January 22nd, 2011, 10:04 AM	#228
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Following on from what Alister and David have written, my GUESS is that that comparison mentioned by Brett may have been from, e.g. the 1200 Lux comparitive pictures on sites such as Slashcam. If you set up their comparison page with say EX1 or EX1r from the drop down list on one side and the XF100 on the other drop down list then, to my eyes, the XF100 looks to have more resolution (you can compare the pictures from both cams side by side on the same screen). There are also chart comparison shots, lens distortion shots etc. Comparison of the ISO charts shows the EX1r to be better than the XF100, at least to me, even if the pictures suggest the opposite. Heck, if you compare the tiny little 3 chip, high-end consumer Panasonic TM700 against the XDCAM EXs on the Slashcam site then you might be also surprised! I guess it really depends on how much you trust camcorder review sites like Slashcam are able to set up the cameras correctly. Certainly, in theory (as has been pointed out by those far more knowlegeable on sensor design than I) the XF100/105 with it's single 1920x1080 sensor should come in under the 3 chipped full raster XDCAM EXs with respect to REAL resolution. The Slashcam site also has data for the XF300. Slashcam site is in the link below so you can draw your own conclusions. Camcorder test charts comparison __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

January 26th, 2011, 01:28 PM	#233
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	XF105 - Défilé Jolidon Video Well, if you wanted to know how well the XF105 renders skin tones in artificial light with it's single chip I guess this is a very good example to view.... as it's a catwalk parade of ladies in underwear as the thumbnail will no doubt show ;-) He has posted another video with the XF105 on Vimeo too (pretty similar subject matter). Sadly, no info on camera settings on the Vimeo pages. Well you can't have everything! Wonder why France seems to be getting the baby XFs a bit early? Défilé Jolidon on Vimeo __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

January 27th, 2011, 09:12 PM	#235
Tania Ratu New Boot Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Tokoroa, New Zealand Posts: 18	I don't think he loves cams like we do. I can't figure out what could be so distracting when you could be checking out a real canon xf cam in action. I agree the gamma curves look pretty amazing. Cheers Ratu __________________ Rugby is the winner at the end of the day.

February 7th, 2011, 08:46 AM	#238
Buba Kastorski Trustee Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,414	Feb 23 here in Toronto, I'm in line already :) __________________ I love this place!

January 21st, 2011, 07:17 PM	#227
Rob Katz Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: new york city, new york Posts: 594	david- under proper lighting would a single chip camera like the xf105/xf100 have "enough" real detail? i know we all spend soooo much time discussing cameras under low light situation. but for what i do, the difference between low light and enough light is adding one instrument. i wonder how the image quality of xf105/xf100 cameras will be with "enough" light. ymmv be well rob

January 25th, 2011, 07:43 PM	#231
Brett Munoz Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 30	You worry too much All.. I have seen the side by side comparison with the XF300, slightly less detail and the bokeh doesn't appear as smooth. I got it mainly as a B, sometimes A cam. Will work great as a compact on the Merlin. The detail still looks great and awesome low light. That little 50Mbps CMOS chip is going to rock! Sure, not true 4:2:2 due to the single chip design but who cares, its looks the squat and no one will ever be able to tell except us video dorks.

January 26th, 2011, 03:58 AM	#232
Federico Perale Major Player Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: London Posts: 410	haha great comment Brett : )

January 26th, 2011, 02:26 PM	#234
Glen Vandermolen Space Hipster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,596	Whoa! Who knew a single chip cam could have such..er..dynamic range and...umm...great gamma curves? The big mystery is why there's a guy sitting at a table - with his back to the show the entire time? Isn't he interested in the camera??? Best camera demo video ever!

February 7th, 2011, 06:16 AM	#237
Federico Perale Major Player Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: London Posts: 410	so has anyone received it? some websites in the UK now mention a 1st of March availability

February 8th, 2011, 08:13 PM	#239
Mike Quinones Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Melreso Park IL. Posts: 89	Hey Buba; Did you get it. Post your impressions. I like to know. I thinking about getting one too.

February 9th, 2011, 06:17 AM	#240
Peter Erfurt Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Silkeborg Denmark Posts: 93	Hi all, I had a 105 on order until today to be used as a B cam on a trip on Feb. 17th, but my dealer (Proav in the UK has just changed the delivery schedule till "Delivery early March", so I had to cancel the order. Seems like there's a delay from Canon's side. /peter