Canon introduces XF105 and XF100

[Robin Davies-Rollinson]

Thanks for those figures.
Don't forget that VAT is going up next year as well, so that would put the XF100 to about £2755.
Still very interested though - I'd like to see some more images from its single chip...

[Andy Wilkinson]

Yeah, so would I. Have n't found anything new since the French clips despite some occasional Google searching with 'XF100' and 'Video' keywords.

If people start taking delivery in the next week or so then we'll start to see some clips soon! Certainly, at those prices my decision to buy is definitely still "on hold" (even though I'd get the VAT back anyway so it's rate is irrelevant to VAT registered businesses like mine).

Note to Chris Hurd and the Mods: I guess as soon as cameras start getting used this discussion will get moved to the Canon XF 300/305 section - or will the XF100/105 have their own sub section?

[Chris Hurd]

Yes, it'll be one or the other; either we'll throw the 100 / 105 into the
existing XF board or we'll give it its own forum, and that will happen
when we get closer to the actual shipping date.

[Andy Wilkinson]

By the way, in case anyone has not seen this yet, here is the very recent (8th Dec) French review of the XF100 by the guy that did those clips, Antonin Baches.

test-canon-xf100-fonctionnalites-1

If you don't understand French well (I almost do having worked there many times - but it's a bit rusty) just use the Google Translation tool to instantly get a "90% readable" script in English/language of your choice - with a few funny ambiguous phrases of course!

[Flemming Bo Hansen]

Been following this thread for a while and became a member today.
I just found out that the "XF100 / XF105 NTSC instruction manual" can now be downloaded from Canon USA:

Canon U.S.A. : Consumer & Home Office : XF100

[Andy Wilkinson]

Welcome to DVinfo - you'll like it here! I had some very happy times working in your country (at Aarhus) a few years ago. Thanks for the link.

[Flemming Bo Hansen]

Originally Posted by Andy Wilkinson

Welcome to DVinfo - you'll like it here! I had some very happy times working in your country (at Aarhus) a few years ago. Thanks for the link.

Thank you Andy and sorry for not introducing myself properly.

I’m a product designer with no experience in video, except for a few product animations.
I’m planing a 2-month trip to China and Japan next year.
Instead of making sketches and writing a diary I want to document it on video.
For that purpose I’m planing to get the XF100 and a lot of other stuff. Everything as light as possible.

[Blake Eastman]

Would this camera be useful for some green screen work, primarily for the web?

[Ken Hull]

Blake,
According to Canon, the 4:2:2 color encoding makes these camcorders good for green screen work. However, some cameramen have speculated that the single sensor of only 1/3" size might make it difficult for the camcorder to differentiate colors well enough to take advantage of the 4:2:2 color encoding. We won't know for sure until some green screen tests are done and published. The product is expected to arrive on store shelves sometime in January. So maybe by the end of January we will have our answer!
Ken

[Pat Reddy]

For what it's worth, the Slashcam website has posted their review of the XF100, and they include measurements (graphs) of color resolution:

HD camcorder reviews/tests and comparison of Canon XF100 sorted by score

You can compare the XF100 with other camcorders by using the "One on One Cam Comparison" feature on this site.

Pat

[Andy Wilkinson]

Interesting reading. I have to say I'm leaning towards the same conclusions after reading/seeing these results, not to mention some of the comments. However, I'll await seeing several example/test clips and some good user analytical comments from you good fellows before I decide if this cam will join my kit, or not.

If the XF100/105's are delivered here in the UK to some early adopters next week (by the 20th Dec, as promised by some UK suppliers) I'm sure you'll all keep us all posted on DVinfo on what you find/like/don't like, won't you!!!! ;-)

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Ken Hull

According to Canon, the 4:2:2 color encoding makes these camcorders good for green screen work.

In terms of the codec, that's true. It's not just the 4:2:2, it's better overall compression generally.

However, some cameramen have speculated that the single sensor of only 1/3" size might make it difficult for the camcorder to differentiate colors well enough to take advantage of the 4:2:2 color encoding.

The basis for the speculation is that they have a single 1920x1080 Bayer sensor - so half the photosites green, and a quarter each red and blue. De-Bayering inevitably means that the output resolution won't be as high as the chip itself, and the chrominance resolution will be worse than luminance. In other words, the luminance resolution will be less than 1920x1080, chrominance resolution far less still.

You really need a Bayer chip of much better than 1920x1080, or a 3 chip 1920x1080 design to really do justice to 4:2:2.

[Don Miller]

Originally Posted by David Heath

......

You really need a Bayer chip of much better than 1920x1080, or a 3 chip 1920x1080 design to really do justice to 4:2:2.

Well, by that logic Red wouldn't be good enough for big screen.
Little chips used in 3x designs have large measurement errors compared to relatively huge bayer sensors with large photosites.

[Jon Fairhurst]

That's why Scarlet is 3K (for 2K delivery) and EPIC is 5K (for 2K or 4K delivery).

Most digital screens in the US are 2K.

[Kyle Root]

I just saw on BH that you can now pre order them.