HPX 170 compared to XF300. Which would you consider?

[Jonathan Levin]

Greetings.

I realize this camera is not out yet, but I was curious about your thoughts on how the image quality may be XF300 compared to the HPX 170.

I was pretty much set on the 170 until the 300 came out. From what I can tell, the 170 has a slightly wider angle back end on the zoom.

So my question is, if the 300 was out now (knowing only the specs) which would you be more likely to buy? Which camera would have a better image quality.

Sorry if this is sort of a dumb question, but wondering if I should hold off for a short time for the Canon.

Jonathan

[Jonathan Levin]

I should also have asked comparing both cameras at same settings.

[Nick Wilcox-Brown]

There seems to be quite a difference between the two. The Canon still does not have an accurate price, but likely to be around $6500, more expensive than the Panny at around $4500.

The HPX170 is well specced, but only has 650 lines resolution as opposed to over 1000 for the Canon (1.1 effective Mpix as opposed to 2.2)

Both have 1/4" sensors, but to my measurement the Canon is usable up to 1000/1200 ISO, Panasonic's figure is 500. I'm not guaranteeing mine to be absolute, but realistic.

XF has an 18x zoom, the HPX 13x. P2 media is expensive relative to CF cards.

I could go on. Both are capable cameras shooting 4:2:2, but the Canon is 'now technology' as opposed to 1998 technology, and is broadcast capable at 50Mbs. The Canon image quality is beautiful, but is the higher price justified for your market?

It will be interesting to make a comparison with HPX170 / EX1R / EX3 when production quality Canons are in circulation.

Nick.

[Jonathan Levin]

Hi Nick,

That's just what I was looking for! I realize with the camera not yet available that everything is speculation. The proof will be when they are released and someone does a side by side.

Thanks.

Jonathan

[Dom Stevenson]

Jonathon,

Not much info about your needs, but here's my 2 cents.

The Panasonic camera's have a very pleasing "look" if that's what you want. They are not going to be as sharp as the EX1 or Xf range. Also, P2 is still the most expensive media option AFAIK, so you're paying more for the cards for lower resolution. The camera's also have a plasticky toy-like feel to them IMO, however the camera is significantly cheaper than the other cameras you mention, depending on how much memory you need to invest in. They do come with a 5 year warranty which is very reassuring.

It really comes down to your budget and memory needs. Personally i really like the Panasonic look, and am not too fussy about the resolution. All these camera's are outstanding, and if P2 pricing is an issue Panasonic have an SDHC option in the HMC 151 which is half the price of the Canon. I think the Canon is overpriced - in the UK at least, but it hasn't officially arrived yet so it's hard to say for sure. Having said that the use of CF cards could make the Canon camera cheaper than the Panasonic if you need to buy a lot of cards.

I suggest you rent both, preferably from a rental house that will sell you one with the rental fee taken off the price of the new model. That way you'll know you made the right choice, and you won't have to pay for the test.

As a 5Dmkii owner, i'd go with the Canon if money was not an issue. I feel it will be a great camera that will cut nicely with my 5D as a 2nd camera. I owned an XHA1 and miss it since i sold it, even though i now use an EX1 when i need a "proper" video camera. But the price jump is huge. Almost double in the UK, and if i was watching my pennies, i'd be perfectly happy with a 170, or indeed a 151.

Finally, it seems likely that the 170 is due for an upgrade. Second guessing camera manufacturers is always a silly past time, but many are speculating that a fixed lens version of the hpx 300 is round the corner, and i wouldn't be surprised to see it happen this year. The new one will have up to date sensors, and P2 will probably take another price drop given the emergence of Canon's CF card camera. Meanwhile the Canon will be around for several years to come.

Like i said. Rent both, consider your memory needs, check your bank balance, and make a decision based on that.

Hope this helps.

[Jonathan Levin]

Dom,

Yes that is helpful. I am anxious to see what the XF300/350 can produce when it becomes available. I'm sure when I decide on something some new capture device will be down the road. Time to just jump in.

Jonathan

[Robert Turchick]

Having used the 170 and owning a 150, I can tell you there's not much difference picture quality-wise between them. I've used them as A & B cams on shoots and can't tell them apart once in my FCP system.
170 has a much faster workflow though. Need to transcode the 150 to pro res. Transcoding didn't bother me and the record time on the 150 is 200 minutes with a 32 gig card. Made the choice a no brainer between those two. Love my 150!

BUT...here's the thing...
I have started using the DSLR's (T2i and friend's 5D) for shoots and comparatively the Panny footage which used to look great to me now looks noisy and soft even in well lit studio situations.

I have begun to set aside funds for a Canon XF. Spec-wise, it should be loads better than either Panny. I can't give up a true video camera but really need one to match the crispness and color of the DSLR's better. Initial reports seem to confirm that the XF's will do just that. In a few months look for my 150 with lots of goodies for sale!

[Dom Stevenson]

Agreed. I've seen the two camera's side by side and haven't been able to tell the difference. Actually the 170's is not a great buy at the moment unless you can get a good discount IMO. The 151 is still a good buy if you don't need 422, as i suspect most people don't.
In favour of the Canon I would add that i much prefer CF cards to SDHC as the former feel much more robust. P2 are still too expensive for my liking, particularly in light of the available competition.

[Steve Wolla]

Seems to me a more relevant comparison would be between the HPX300, not the HPX170 or HMC150, and the Canon XF300 / 305.

I say this because street price between them should be within $1,000 or so. Plus they both use newer generation 1/3" CMOS chips, etc.

I already know (or am very certain) that the XF300 will have better IQ than my 150. But then it costs half what the XF300 will likely cost. The HPX300 would be the real challenger here.

[Dom Stevenson]

Fair point re the chips Steve, but i would argue that the real challenger to the hpx 300 would be the changeable lens version of the XF range, that i hasn't been announced yet AFAIK.

And there's the problem for us in the UK. The cheapest version (xf300) is supposed to be retailing for 6 grand (9000 US$), while the 305 is more still. And these are the fixed lens options. The XHL1 replacement will cost even more. So even in it's cheapest fixed lens version this camera costs more than the EX3. Ouch!
I'd be interested to know how many of you folks across the pond would pay 9 grand for this 1/3 chip fixed lens version?

[Jonathan Levin]

Wow. This keeps getting better. Thanks guys for your insight. I can't wait for real hands on comparison, whenever that may be.

Comparing the XF300 to the Panny 300. Oh man....

Jonathan

[David Chilson]

Dom,

I wouldn't pay $9000 for the camera on any side of the pond and to be honest, I was surprised at the $6500-$6800. I was thinking it was going to be the XH A1/H1 replacement but Canon had better keep those cameras in the line because there is a huge price gap between Canon's top of the line consumer camera $1299 to this Camera.
I was all excited about it until I saw the price. Not long after they were announce I was thinking of selling my A1's before the perceived glut of the soon to be outdated A1. Glad I didn't. I still own two XH A1s's and for my work, I'm keeping them. I read that Chris talked about how they should make a camera for this "gap" but I don't beleive I would sell the ones I own for those either. Sometimes I need two cameras and buying two of the new ones would cost me over $14,000, So I'm ordering more tapes from the guys at Tapeworks and saving the cash. Just doesn't make good business sense for me.

[Jim Martin]

Minor thing......the 300 & 305 have 1/3" chips........

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

[Steve Wolla]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Levin

Wow. This keeps getting better. Thanks guys for your insight. I can't wait for real hands on comparison, whenever that may be.

Comparing the XF300 to the Panny 300. Oh man....

Jonathan

Not to further complicate matters, but Panny also has that new AF-100 cam based on their 4/3's CMOS chip that really looks to be a killer, at a price of around $6K, or so they were saying at NAB....it is due out September-ish, I believe.

choice is good!

[Shufiyan Shukur]

I have not held the 300 but I have held the 305 and it IS heavy! Front heavy ... It's got a 'huge' lens.
The 170 however is light in comparison.