Press Release: Canon's New XF305 and XF300 Professional HD Camcorder

[Kin Lau]

Originally Posted by Ned Soltz

The only weak link here is the SDHC card. I can easily see too many users trying to use the cheapest card they can find, disregarding specs, and then filling the boards with complaints of media errors and dropped frames.

Where did you see SDHC? I only see CF.

[Tom Roper]

What will be interesting is if the light gathering of the larger 82mm glass will be an equalizer to the EX1's larger chips?

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Kin Lau

Where did you see SDHC? I only see CF.

There's an SDHC card slot located on the right side
of the camera body, on the hand grip (see my photos
back on page one of this thread, specifically in post #3).

Basically it's there as a way to move still images, custom
picture data, clip metadata and custom settings from
one XF series camcorder to another, or to a computer.

HD video is of course recorded to one of the two CF
(Compact Flash) card slots on the back of the cam.

[Dan Brockett]

This camera ends up being a large question mark for me. Will these new Canons be good? Undoubtedly. Is there some impressive new technology in both of them? Definitely. Are they going to be perceived by the market as a good value? That I question.

If you compare specs to the competition, the price does seem kind of high for what you are receiving. The list on the XF305 is $8,000.00. The list on the AG-HPX370 is $9,200.00. The list price on the EX3 is 9,800.00. Both the Canon and the Panasonic are 1/3" sensors and full raster, while the Sony is 1/2" full raster.

The AVCI 100MBPs codec will be better than 4:2:2 50MBPs, but the Canon's codec is superior to the creaky 4:2:0 35MBPs that the Sony EX3 has. Granted, CF cards will be cheaper than P2 cards or SxS cards. Fixed lens on the Canon versus a detachable lens on the Panasonic and Sony. Prosumer batteries on the Canon and Sony versus pro batteries on the Panasonic. Neither the Canon (so far) or the Sony offer a true studio configuration while Panasonic does off a real co-axial and CCU solution.

Handheld form factor on the Canon versus a hybrid "sort of" shoulder mount form factor on the Sony, while the Panasonic retains a broadcast shoulder mount form factor.

I don't see this camera being much a force in the market, I think Canon die-hards will obviously buy it but I am not so sure about non-Canon die hards. I guess Canon always have the option of dropping the price if it does not sell, as Panasonic did with the HPX300/301. Once the camera is available though, $8,000.00 list should street for closer to $6,800.00. It is an interesting niche they are trying to hit but other than a better codec than HDV or XDCAM EX, I don't see anything too exciting.

Keep on wishing as far as a DSLR sensor in an inexpensive video camera, I don't see that coming soon.

Thanks for posting about this Chris. It will be interesting to see just how good these new cams are.

Dan

[Randy Panado]

Add me to the list of sticker shocked patrons.

One thing I did like was the intuitive layout of all the buttons on the camcorder. The only thing that I didn't see was a dedicated button for custom settings, unless that custom pict button on the left can be considered such but it looks more like a preset button to me. I'd love to have quick access to overcranking like the EX1r has.

I've been waiting for this camcorder as opposed to buying an EX1r but we shall see how this compares.

Quick question for the codec gurus, does this need to be converted in FCP or will this play nicely with prores LT? I'm not too familiar with the MXF file format.

Cheers

[Steve Phillipps]

I think that's a pretty good summary Dan.
Think you'd get some debate (though not from me) about whether AVCI is better than 50mb/s MPEG.
I think you'd have to sum up this new Canon as "interesting" rather than "killer".
Steve

[Steve Phillipps]

Randy, when Canon announced the codec in February they were even then talking about massive support for it from Apple, Avid etc. I'm sure it'll go in fine - with software updates from the NLE folks.
Steve

[Dan Brockett]

According to the press release, Apple, as well as AVID and all of the other big editing software companies has worked with Canon to implement this new Canon CF codec into their apps, including FCS. You should be able to edit it natively without having to transcode to ProRes.

Dan

[Chris Hurd]

To Dan's fine summary of camera options, I would add the recently announced JVC ProHD GY-HM700 for under $12k including lens.

[Steve Phillipps]

That'd be my pick for the wildlife guys too Chris - thinking about getting one for a few small projects and personal stuff. 1/3" chips gives good lens reach, CCDs so no skew, 60P slow motion, small and light. It ticks a lot of boxes - but it's still only a 720 sensor. Hmmm, scary.

BTW - I was right about there being lots of posts once the Canon was announced!

Steve

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Steve Phillipps

t it's still only a 720 sensor.

No, it's a 720 sensor with pixel offset -- that's a big difference.

The number of pixels on the sensor is only one part of the camera's output resolution capability. There are a variety of pixel offset technologies, and all of them positively impact the camera's recorded resolution in a beneficial way. The pixel count on the chip doesn't tell the whole story.

[Steve Phillipps]

No, but it does tell a massive part of it. I've been an HPX2700 owner and defended it to the hilt on this forum. BUT it's certainly true that whatever techniques you use you can't make detail that isn't there in the first place. 1920x1080 chips capture twice as much detail as 1280x720 ones, and that's a fact.
Steve

[Jack Zhang]

Originally Posted by Laurence Janus

I was so excited... right up to the CMOS bit.

Same here. XH-A1 for me then.

Originally Posted by Tom Roper

Put a fork in CCD, it's done.

Absolutely not. Professional high-end applications still need it for Matchmoving and etc. Flash banding is also the big issue.

Originally Posted by Thomas Smet

I agree. CCD is quickly being phased out.

In the Prosumer market, this is very true. But like I said, it's the pro market that won't phase it out until affordable global shutters hit the CMOS market (which I don't think will happen in the near future)

Originally Posted by Steve Phillipps

Just more strength to the argument that the CMOS cameras are not quite good enough yet - even with all their advantages the high end folks are just not using them.

Couldn't agree more.

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by Steve Phillipps

even with all their advantages the high end folks are just not using them.
Steve

I call BS. RED, SI2K, and even the Arri D20/D21 are all CMOS and all have been projected on the silver screen. All have been involved in either Oscar winning, or Oscar nominated films.

To say that high end folks are not using it is just flat untrue.

[Chris Hurd]

Perrone is quoting digital cinema. That's not the only high-end market and I don't think that's what Steve was referring to.