Press Release: Canon's New XF305 and XF300 Professional HD Camcorder

Randy Panado · April 12th, 2010, 09:57 PM

Lonnie, that is awesome! Thanks for the report :). Please push the gain and see what kind of noise characteristics the cam has.

Appreciate the report!

Tom Hardwick · April 13th, 2010, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Hudzik

fstop at 1.6 all the way through the 16x zoom range. It's quite a marvel.

It is indeed quite a marvel if this is so, and it comes as a big surprise to me. The stock 20x zoom starts out at a good f/1.6 (but a feeble wide-angle equivalent of 39mm) but is only f/3.5 at the tele end. I know the 16x zoom costs a good £1000 but I had no idea it was this fast right throughout its range.

The XF does indeed have an f/2.8 maximum at full tele, but it's a shorter (18x vs 20x) zoom than on the XH, which has an f/3.4 maximum at full tele.

tom.

Marty Hudzik · April 13th, 2010, 07:15 AM

Tom,
I can verify this to be 100% true. Even though it seems impossible as fixed aperture zooms are usually super expensive. I discovered this several years ago when shooting wedding reception and I found the 16x to be ideal in low light. I didn't understand as much about the relationship of fstops and light gathering....so at the time a f3.2 to f.1.6 didn't "sound" like a big difference. But in a poorly lit reception hall it was huge!

Also, just like this new lens, the 16x has hard stops so when in doubt, you can whip it to the infinity setting and knw that everything beyond 2-3 feet in front of the lens would be in sharp focus. This is helpful in no scripted chaotic shooting.

I just double checked the listed specs for the 16x xl manual lens and it is listed as having an Fspec of 1.6. It doesn't list a range which is typically how they list it if the fstop varies over the zoom range.

The drawback to this lens is that it has no image stabilizer though, which the new canon series we are discussing here does. Big + for that.

Tom Hardwick · April 13th, 2010, 08:05 AM

We must be talking about fifferent lenses then Marty. The 16x manual Canon zoom I've always known has been the $1500, 5.5-88 mm - F/1.6- 2.1. Here's a typical site that lists it:

Canon Lens - Optical Zoom: 16X Zoom - 5.5-88 mm - F/1.6- 2.1 (Anitec.ca) at BEST PRICE

OK, it only loses 3/4 of a stop from wide to tele but you've still got to almost double the light in the room to use full tele - or bump the gain by 5dB. So where does your '100% true' come from?

But then again most 16x zooms lose more like 1.5 stops, a noticeable difference.

tom.

Marty Hudzik · April 13th, 2010, 08:57 AM

I will test this over my lunch hour to see. My 100% true is based on when I zoom to maximum telephoto the fstop 1.6 stays there all the way through. Now....is it possible that the indicator says f1.6 but the actual lens is stopping down to f2.1? I suppose. I will be shocked if I go test it and it actually says f2.1 as I have been using it for better than six years and never noticed it. But there is a slim chance I am wrong so I guess I shouldn't have said 100%....should I? I'll let you know in a bit.

Daniel Caruso · April 13th, 2010, 10:54 AM

Does anyone have some opinions for using the xf cams with a 35mm adapter? I am more picking out the light loss and how it may still handle the image. The A1 with a redrock and 1.8 does me well though any slight chance of an under exposed situation and the image will crumble in post. This is my main reason for a new camera. The ex1 handles the adapters very well so far with what i have seen, but due to the sensors the xf may not work as well with it. Keep the A1 for eng and buy a 5D for stuff i would use the 35mm look? Thanks for the input.

Marty Hudzik · April 13th, 2010, 11:21 AM

All right. Last post on the 16x manual for the XL series in this thread by me. I can 100% confirm my 100% confirmation from earlier that the lens holds the f1.6 from the widest point to the most telephoto point of the zoom. The fstop indicator never changes and to my eye (unscientific but experienced enough to detect anything major) the iris never changes. If it does change at all it is very, very minor and is not visible or detectable via the camera's interface.

Regardless, the new lens on the xf300 series will be every bit as good plus have great IS to boot. f1.6 to f2.8 isn't bad either!

Michael Galvan · April 13th, 2010, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Hudzik

All right. Last post on the 16x manual for the XL series in this thread by me. I can 100% confirm my 100% confirmation from earlier that the lens holds the f1.6 from the widest point to the most telephoto point of the zoom. The fstop indicator never changes and to my eye (unscientific but experienced enough to detect anything major) the iris never changes. If it does change at all it is very, very minor and is not visible or detectable via the camera's interface.

Regardless, the new lens on the xf300 series will be every bit as good plus have great IS to boot. f1.6 to f2.8 isn't bad either!

Hey Marty,

How do you like this lens on your XL H1? Having 1.6 constant aperture sounds fantastic for low-light event shooting.

Do you find it resolves similar detail to the stock lens? How about CA?

Michael Galvan · April 13th, 2010, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Sorry, this is the first thing I asked them yesterday. All of the XF models they have are pre-production market test samples which are definitely record inhibited.

Chris,

Any chance you can ask Canon about the XL version of the XF cams?

Tom Hardwick · April 13th, 2010, 12:02 PM

Marty - it's easily tested. Fill the screen with something like an evenly lit wall. Shoot at max wide-angle and max aperture. You might need to up the shutter speed and / or apply ND filters so that your lens really is wide open. Shoot a couple of seconds.

Now zoom to full tele. Shoot another second or two without altering any of the settings. On the timeline you'll be able to jump forwards and backwards across the join. Just compare the centre of the screen as the edges will be vignetted by a stop and a half - which is very normal.

tom.

Marty Hudzik · April 13th, 2010, 12:32 PM

I've started a new thread in the XL-h1 forum for any further discussion on the 16x manual XL lens. Just trying to keep this organized and focused on the new camera. See my responses over there please.

Benny Ek · April 13th, 2010, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

I have to say, though -- these came in at higher prices than I expected ($8000 with SDI and $6800 without SDI). Honestly I had figured they would be much closer in price to the XH series.

Hey Chris. It was good to meet you at the Canon booth as we were both drooling over the XF Series.
I have to say, It is really intriguing to see Canon step up the on this camera. The footage in the Canon Demo room looked incredible. Although I love my NXCAM and I still would like to see some lowlight footage from this camera, I am very interested and happy to see the bar be raised.

Michael Galvan · April 13th, 2010, 06:26 PM

Woah... I just watched a video over at FreshDV. They interviewed Canon's Chuck Westfall about the XF cameras.

When he was asked about the Dynamic range of the camera, Chuck states that it will be around 11 to 12 stops.

If true, thats pretty incredible!

Daniel Caruso · April 13th, 2010, 06:52 PM

thanks for the mention of the freshdv coverage. i truly cannot wait til i can get my hands on one. could someone elaborate on what they mean by the 11 to 12 stops for dynamic range.

Jonathan Shaw · April 14th, 2010, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Galvan

Woah... I just watched a video over at FreshDV. They interviewed Canon's Chuck Westfall about the XF cameras.

When he was asked about the Dynamic range of the camera, Chuck states that it will be around 11 to 12 stops.

If true, thats pretty incredible!

That is massive if that is true....believe it when we see it

April 13th, 2010, 06:26 PM	#193
Michael Galvan Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 775	Woah... I just watched a video over at FreshDV. They interviewed Canon's Chuck Westfall about the XF cameras. When he was asked about the Dynamic range of the camera, Chuck states that it will be around 11 to 12 stops. If true, thats pretty incredible! __________________ www.michaelgalvan.com www.screenanthology.com

April 12th, 2010, 09:57 PM	#181
Randy Panado Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 643	Lonnie, that is awesome! Thanks for the report :). Please push the gain and see what kind of noise characteristics the cam has. Appreciate the report!

April 13th, 2010, 07:15 AM	#183
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	Tom, I can verify this to be 100% true. Even though it seems impossible as fixed aperture zooms are usually super expensive. I discovered this several years ago when shooting wedding reception and I found the 16x to be ideal in low light. I didn't understand as much about the relationship of fstops and light gathering....so at the time a f3.2 to f.1.6 didn't "sound" like a big difference. But in a poorly lit reception hall it was huge! Also, just like this new lens, the 16x has hard stops so when in doubt, you can whip it to the infinity setting and knw that everything beyond 2-3 feet in front of the lens would be in sharp focus. This is helpful in no scripted chaotic shooting. I just double checked the listed specs for the 16x xl manual lens and it is listed as having an Fspec of 1.6. It doesn't list a range which is typically how they list it if the fstop varies over the zoom range. The drawback to this lens is that it has no image stabilizer though, which the new canon series we are discussing here does. Big + for that.

April 13th, 2010, 08:05 AM	#184
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	We must be talking about fifferent lenses then Marty. The 16x manual Canon zoom I've always known has been the $1500, 5.5-88 mm - F/1.6- 2.1. Here's a typical site that lists it: Canon Lens - Optical Zoom: 16X Zoom - 5.5-88 mm - F/1.6- 2.1 (Anitec.ca) at BEST PRICE OK, it only loses 3/4 of a stop from wide to tele but you've still got to almost double the light in the room to use full tele - or bump the gain by 5dB. So where does your '100% true' come from? But then again most 16x zooms lose more like 1.5 stops, a noticeable difference. tom.

April 13th, 2010, 08:57 AM	#185
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	I will test this over my lunch hour to see. My 100% true is based on when I zoom to maximum telephoto the fstop 1.6 stays there all the way through. Now....is it possible that the indicator says f1.6 but the actual lens is stopping down to f2.1? I suppose. I will be shocked if I go test it and it actually says f2.1 as I have been using it for better than six years and never noticed it. But there is a slim chance I am wrong so I guess I shouldn't have said 100%....should I? I'll let you know in a bit.

April 13th, 2010, 10:54 AM	#186
Daniel Caruso Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Newmarket, Ontario Posts: 90	Does anyone have some opinions for using the xf cams with a 35mm adapter? I am more picking out the light loss and how it may still handle the image. The A1 with a redrock and 1.8 does me well though any slight chance of an under exposed situation and the image will crumble in post. This is my main reason for a new camera. The ex1 handles the adapters very well so far with what i have seen, but due to the sensors the xf may not work as well with it. Keep the A1 for eng and buy a 5D for stuff i would use the 35mm look? Thanks for the input.

April 13th, 2010, 11:21 AM	#187
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	All right. Last post on the 16x manual for the XL series in this thread by me. I can 100% confirm my 100% confirmation from earlier that the lens holds the f1.6 from the widest point to the most telephoto point of the zoom. The fstop indicator never changes and to my eye (unscientific but experienced enough to detect anything major) the iris never changes. If it does change at all it is very, very minor and is not visible or detectable via the camera's interface. Regardless, the new lens on the xf300 series will be every bit as good plus have great IS to boot. f1.6 to f2.8 isn't bad either!

April 13th, 2010, 12:02 PM	#190
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Marty - it's easily tested. Fill the screen with something like an evenly lit wall. Shoot at max wide-angle and max aperture. You might need to up the shutter speed and / or apply ND filters so that your lens really is wide open. Shoot a couple of seconds. Now zoom to full tele. Shoot another second or two without altering any of the settings. On the timeline you'll be able to jump forwards and backwards across the join. Just compare the centre of the screen as the edges will be vignetted by a stop and a half - which is very normal. tom.

April 13th, 2010, 12:32 PM	#191
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	I've started a new thread in the XL-h1 forum for any further discussion on the 16x manual XL lens. Just trying to keep this organized and focused on the new camera. See my responses over there please.

April 13th, 2010, 06:52 PM	#194
Daniel Caruso Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Newmarket, Ontario Posts: 90	thanks for the mention of the freshdv coverage. i truly cannot wait til i can get my hands on one. could someone elaborate on what they mean by the 11 to 12 stops for dynamic range.