Canon XC10 vs. Sony RX10-II

[Mark Watson]

Canon literature mentions a single density ND filter.

Mark

[Mark Dobson]

For those interested in exploring the functionality of the Canon XC10 it is now possible to download the camera manual.

XC10 - Canon UK

[Kris Kohuth]

How much of a usability hit does the LCD take when shooting Canon Log?

I've read that Canon's Cinema line has a "View Assist" mode for their screens, which I'm assuming applies a display-only LUT. If the XC10 doesn't similarly compensate, will the LCD turn to milk?

There's no mention of this in the manual (thanks for that link, Mark.)

[Barry Goyette]

Originally Posted by Kris Kohuth

How much of a usability hit does the LCD take when shooting Canon Log?

I've read that Canon's Cinema line has a "View Assist" mode for their screens, which I'm assuming applies a display-only LUT. If the XC10 doesn't similarly compensate, will the LCD turn to milk?

There's no mention of this in the manual (thanks for that link, Mark.)

It looks like the camera does not have the view assist function, but I don't see this as that much of a problem. Canon cinema mode, or c-log generally looks fine on the monitor....it certainly isn't that colorful, but at least on the c300, the LCD isn't particularly accurate in terms of color with it in view assist and other CP gammas either. I believe the XC10 has a better LCD than what is on the C300....and if it's the one from the C300 mark ii, then it's vastly superior. Regardless, when viewing LOG..the monitor is fine (I prefer seeing the full range of the signal than a tweaked one anyway.

[Kris Kohuth]

Originally Posted by Barry Goyette

It looks like the camera does not have the view assist function, but I don't see this as that much of a problem. Canon cinema mode, or c-log generally looks fine on the monitor....it certainly isn't that colorful, but at least on the c300, the LCD isn't particularly accurate in terms of color with it in view assist and other CP gammas either. I believe the XC10 has a better LCD than what is on the C300....and if it's the one from the C300 mark ii, then it's vastly superior. Regardless, when viewing LOG..the monitor is fine (I prefer seeing the full range of the signal than a tweaked one anyway.

That's reassuring. Thanks.

My only experience shooting log is with the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema camera. And the screen on that thing is a bit, well, challenging.

[Glen Vandermolen]

Originally Posted by Cliff Totten

Yes, the RX10-II's 29 minute limitation is actually something that saves the XC10. The RX10-II really cant be used for long form recording unless you have an external recorder to beat the time limit.

Ironically, the $1,200 that you save when buying and RX10-II allows you to buy a 4k ProRes recorder like the 5 inch PIX 5E with 400 to 800Mbp/s. (Not to mention, tons of focus and exposure tools with 3 scopes to boot)

I do not understand why the camera manufacturers burden their worldwide camera distribution with this silly European 30-minute time limit. We here in the US don't face a tax burden on a video camera. Why limit all of the world's cameras to the time limitation? I'm guessing the cameras are quite capable of recording video for over 30 minutes at a time.
Make a European version and a different world version, without the worthless and annoying 30 minute record limitation.
I'm sorry for our EU members, but there's no reason the rest of us should suffer from this idiotic tax.

[Matthias Claflin]

I've been doing my best to follow Canon's developments when it comes to 4k. They are very late to the party and I'm afraid this XC10 isn't helping matters. Just looking at the price difference between the RX10-II and the XC10, I find it baffling that Canon can't do (or rather doesn't do) 4k for much cheaper. The GH4 is significantly cheaper than the XC10 as well (and that's a year old, correct?)

I'm a Canon fanboy most of the time, and have spent a lot of time shooting with the C100 recently, but can't figure out why Canon chooses to wait on 4k? I personally don't need 4k, but when shooting a wedding (my primary source of income) it is great to be able to crop to 150% or even 200% without any loss in image quality, and when it is as cheap as the GH4 or the new RX10, what is holding Canon back? I mean, even my samsung galaxy S5 has 4k video (crappy 4k but still).

[Cliff Totten]

Woah!...Just took my new RX10-II for a 30 min spin. The new stacked 1 inch-type sensor has NO rolling shutter in 4k!!...it's GONE! Woah! SLOG-2 looks fantastic, highlight handling is a HUGE improvement....dynamic range is EASILY way better than previous 1inch-type models with SLOG-2 turned on. (rec 709 highlights seems the same as previous 1inch-type)

The high speed frame rates are spectacular for a cheap $1,300 camera.

This thing is a little MONSTER!

[Mark Watson]

Originally Posted by Matthias Claflin

I've been doing my best to follow Canon's developments when it comes to 4k. They are very late to the party and I'm afraid this XC10 isn't helping matters. Just looking at the price difference between the RX10-II and the XC10, I find it baffling that Canon can't do (or rather doesn't do) 4k for much cheaper. The GH4 is significantly cheaper than the XC10 as well (and that's a year old, correct?)

I'm a Canon fanboy most of the time, and have spent a lot of time shooting with the C100 recently, but can't figure out why Canon chooses to wait on 4k? I personally don't need 4k, but when shooting a wedding (my primary source of income) it is great to be able to crop to 150% or even 200% without any loss in image quality, and when it is as cheap as the GH4 or the new RX10, what is holding Canon back? I mean, even my samsung galaxy S5 has 4k video (crappy 4k but still).

I know how you feel. My first point & shoot was a Canon PowerShot I bought in 2002. I tend to like the way Canon does things, button layout and non-proprietary media. I got my first dSLR around 2006, a Canon XTi. So, now 9 years later I have a lot of Canon gear, including a good number of L lenses. But since Canon is not into 4K or high frame rates, which I am interested in, I am playing the field and getting what works for me regardless of brand. It hurts to consider going over to Nikon for their 36 MP cameras because I'd have to get all new glass, so I haven't done that. But with these fixed lens cameras, there's not a huge investment in brand-exclusive accessories. I really love my Sony FDR-AX100. Got it for the high frame rate and have really taken a liking to the 4K as well. Now there are two more cameras I'm looking at, the Sony FS7 and the soon to be released Ursa Mini. Canon makes their decisions, I make mine and spend my money on what does the job I want it to, regardless of brand. You being a pro, I'd suggest looking at the Sony X70. Once you see what you can do with 4K, I think you'll be hooked.

Mark

[Franz Brandstetter]

While here, the XC10 is gebasht, I have been working for months with it, and you can work with it excellent. Even in a few hire with the RX10 II
No comparison in the quality of Aufnahmen..die Xc has a super codec and beautiful colors much better handling. The price is in the meantime already fallen.
So instead of complaining works;-)

[Rob Katz]

and now with sony's a6300 announcement, i wonder how either the xc10 or rx10mk2 will hold up.

ymmv

be well.

rob
smalltalk.productions

[Rodger Smith]

Originally Posted by Franklin Bencosme

Yes folks new SONY just nock out the Canon xc10,we have CANON 5D2 and 60D, . . . The best Franklin

Personally I like the look of the Sony RX100 footage and the form factor and price says I can get two of them for the price of any kind of DSLR look alike. I'm debating between the XC10 and Sony AX33 or anything else that will give me awesome stills and video at a very reasonable price point. I love that I could pack the RX100 in my pocket too.

[Rodger Smith]

Originally Posted by Cliff Totten

. . . Canon chose an odd "305Mbp/s" bitrate for this Intra-codec. I need to dig deeper into what it uses. (H.264 Intra profile?" If Canon did a long GOP codec at 150Mbp/s, that would have really captured 99.99% of what these small, 1 inch-type sensors can see. And for that? SDXC cards would have easily recorded that. (JVC does it on SDXC with no problems) . . .

The CFast cards are also a consideration for me as I am considering the XC10. In fact, for the price of a CFast 64 or 128 GB x3500 card, I can buy a 1TB super fast external USB3 SSD which I'd much prefer over some card that sits around most of the time doing nuttin' :-(

[Mark Dobson]

I received a post that pointed me towards this article by Adam Wilt here on DVINFO.net.

Review: Canon XC10 1? 4K hybrid compact camera/camcorder

Surprised I hadn't seen it earlier but it is the most comprehensive review and appraisal of the Canon XC10 that I've seen.

Truly excellent, pros and cons, read for anyone considering buying the XC10. But it didn't make me regret my decision to very rapidly switch to the Sony RX10-11. The excellent viewfinder, the lens and Slo-mo being streaks ahead. Shame as there are many things I really loved about the Canon XC10.

[Pavel Sedlak]

Originally Posted by Cliff Totten

... 305Mbp/s INTRA in UHD is actually pretty low...

No, it isn't. Sony F5 has the same bitrate for UltraHD at 25p FPS.