Wearable Computer System for HD Capture

Andrew Plumb · August 25th, 2007, 07:07 PM

There's the Magma ExpressBox we were discussing elsewhere, if that's what you're referring to. That'll fit up to an x16 board, but only at x1 speeds.

Ian G. Thompson · August 25th, 2007, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serge Victorovich

DIGIC DV II processes the HD signal at 1440 x 1080 with 4:2:2 color sampling.

Serg...it seems the link you gave me was referring to the XH A1. The following information is in the same read:
The XH A1 is equipped with three 1/3" Native 16:9 CCDs (1440 x 1080 each) -- the same image sensor that is at the heart of Canon's exceptional XL H1. They deliver outstanding picture quality, highly accurate color reproduction, and a wide dynamic range with virtually no color noise.

It says the native sensors on those cams(XH A1 and H1) are 1440x1080 each (3CCD's) while we know the HV20's sensor is a native 1920x1080 CMOS. What this means I really don't know...but it seems to me they are definately different. Also the DIGIC DV ll HD Image preocessor is used in all the cams I believe. Excuse my ignorance but how does that work acually. Is it processed to tape this way? Since the A1 does not have HDMI does it have a SDI (not sure if it's the proper term) out? And with the HDMI on the HV20's CMOS is that before the DIGIC processing...or after? It's still unclear...It doesn't matter to me anyhow...all 3 cams produce stunning pictures.

Serge Victorovich · August 26th, 2007, 04:05 AM

Ian, you are right about the same DIGIC DV II processor used in all Canon's HDV camcorder.
Only difference is firmware and quantity of buttons on the body of cam:)
To have idea about what is possible to do with proper hack read this:
http://mikey.wordpress.com/2007/01/0...w-format-hack/

...and google for more amazing info:)

Do you think the A1 is better (in image quality) than HV20 ?;)

http://fxsupport.de/25.html

Native resolution HV20's cmos image sensor not 1920x1080, but 2048x1536
With properly hack you can get 2K from 1/2,7" sensor:) Yes, its not 2/3" as altasens in SI2K but have good potention
if capture to CineformRAW straight from smos image sensor.

Wayne Morellini · August 26th, 2007, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Plumb

There's the Magma ExpressBox we were discussing elsewhere, if that's what you're referring to. That'll fit up to an x16 board, but only at x1 speeds.

Andrew, where was that, I wanted to post the link there. The Magma Box is expensive.

Serge Victorovich · August 26th, 2007, 08:26 AM

I hope GetCatalyst is less expensive than MagmaBox.

BTW, original "Wearable Computer System" based on mini-ITX GM965 looks as better solution than games with these adapters for laptop, imo:)

Andrew Plumb · August 26th, 2007, 09:32 PM

Wayne, the Intensity Capture Station thread was where the discussion came up before. (Had to look at my own posting history to find it. :-) Agreed that it's expensive, but cost is relative. You're paying for the convenience of being able to use the one board across multiple machines and/or with a laptop.

Here's to hoping more companies come out with more offerings across the board!

Wayne Morellini · August 27th, 2007, 07:06 AM

Serge, Yep, that adaptor card is just what I was just thinking. This excites me.

If there is an PICO/NANO itx MB with Expresscard, and angle adaptors to turn everything into an small package, it could all fit into the palm of our hands. How much processing power is needed to do basic compression?

If only they had an way to send the sensor image as an grey scale across HDMI, that would be good for compassion. I have brought this issue up before with other cameras. I suspect some cameras do have sensor test modes like this.

Richard Leadbetter · August 27th, 2007, 07:12 AM

Take away MJPEG and CineForm and your only choice for HD capture is Huffyuv. This still uses a fairly large amount of CPU, so the chances of using a Pico or Nano-ATX set-up are somewhat remote.

GetCatalyst also requires a 12v power supply.

Wayne Morellini · August 27th, 2007, 07:13 AM

Andrew, thanks for that, expensive relative to something that could do the same job cheaper. I should had realised about the adaptor Serge posted sooner. We have an bright chap in the local Office W and he was commenting about how you couldn't get an 3D card running effectively through Expresscard unless the laptop was designed to disable it's internal graphics, but I didn't find any 3D Expresscards.

Richard Leadbetter · August 27th, 2007, 07:28 AM

Additional graphics cards have been running in that IBM/Lenovo PCIe Advanced Dock I linked to earlier, allowing multiple monitors to be used from one laptop.

Wayne Morellini · August 27th, 2007, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Leadbetter

Take away MJPEG and CineForm and your only choice for HD capture is Huffyuv. This still uses a fairly large amount of CPU, so the chances of using a Pico or Nano-ATX set-up are somewhat remote.

GetCatalyst also requires a 12v power supply.

I wonder what the actual figures are? I am starting to wonder if UMPC, or Car PC's, would have enough processing power for compression.

Andrew Plumb · August 27th, 2007, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Leadbetter

Take away MJPEG and CineForm and your only choice for HD capture is Huffyuv. This still uses a fairly large amount of CPU, so the chances of using a Pico or Nano-ATX set-up are somewhat remote.

GetCatalyst also requires a 12v power supply.

That's actually a really good thing, being 12V powered. In a Pico/Nano-ITX (not ATX) system you still have to supply it with an ATX-like power supply. That means you'll have regulated 12V (and regulated 5V) at hand to power the usual suspects.

There are lots of PicoPSU and automotive PSU options that can be adapted to run off a wide range of battery voltages and capacities.

Joseph H. Moore · August 27th, 2007, 09:52 AM

Sheervideo is a codec that has traditionally been pretty easy on CPU's. Of course, uncompressed is really easy on the recording CPU ... but the need for a 3-5 drive array kinda negates that!

Wayne Morellini · August 28th, 2007, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Plumb

That's actually a really good thing, being 12V powered. In a Pico/Nano-ITX (not ATX) system you still have to supply it with an ATX-like power supply. That means you'll have regulated 12V (and regulated 5V) at hand to power the usual suspects.

There are lots of PicoPSU and automotive PSU options that can be adapted to run off a wide range of battery voltages and capacities.

Some of the PSU modules we found for x itx are long and thin, smaller then an memory stick in size.

Joseph, what are the actual CPU requirements for 25p/50p at 720p/1080p for sheer, mpeg and cineform etc. That sorts of gives an idea to judge things off of. At the moment UMPC's can be above 1Ghz, and 2Ghz must not be far away. When combined into an UMPC with 5-10inch display, makes for good external monitor/recording/control (Firewire/USB) solution.

Serge Victorovich · August 28th, 2007, 07:03 AM

Wayne, if you want small dvr for capture to Cineform 1080p24 via Intensity think about santa rosa platform, fsb800, merom T7500-T700...
I don't know any pico, nano motherboards with fsb800 to put T7700.
Real solution today based on mini-ITX like this: http://www.ibase.com.tw/mi910.htm

Socket 478 Core™2 Duo Mini-ITX Motherboard with Intel® GM965 Chipset

Cineform is the best balanced codec with less CPU usage than any other.
Future is CineformRAW ported to FPGA!;)
No need to build the hot and power hungry wintel box:)

August 25th, 2007, 07:07 PM	#61
Andrew Plumb Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 94	There's the Magma ExpressBox we were discussing elsewhere, if that's what you're referring to. That'll fit up to an x16 board, but only at x1 speeds. __________________ "The future is already here. It's just not very evenly distributed." - William Gibson

August 26th, 2007, 04:05 AM	#63
Serge Victorovich Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 376	Ian, you are right about the same DIGIC DV II processor used in all Canon's HDV camcorder. Only difference is firmware and quantity of buttons on the body of cam:) To have idea about what is possible to do with proper hack read this: http://mikey.wordpress.com/2007/01/0...w-format-hack/ ...and google for more amazing info:) Do you think the A1 is better (in image quality) than HV20 ?;) http://fxsupport.de/25.html Native resolution HV20's cmos image sensor not 1920x1080, but 2048x1536 With properly hack you can get 2K from 1/2,7" sensor:) Yes, its not 2/3" as altasens in SI2K but have good potention if capture to CineformRAW straight from smos image sensor. Last edited by Serge Victorovich; August 26th, 2007 at 04:47 AM.

August 26th, 2007, 09:32 PM	#66
Andrew Plumb Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 94	Wayne, the Intensity Capture Station thread was where the discussion came up before. (Had to look at my own posting history to find it. :-) Agreed that it's expensive, but cost is relative. You're paying for the convenience of being able to use the one board across multiple machines and/or with a laptop. Here's to hoping more companies come out with more offerings across the board! __________________ "The future is already here. It's just not very evenly distributed." - William Gibson

August 27th, 2007, 07:12 AM	#68
Richard Leadbetter Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 323	Take away MJPEG and CineForm and your only choice for HD capture is Huffyuv. This still uses a fairly large amount of CPU, so the chances of using a Pico or Nano-ATX set-up are somewhat remote. GetCatalyst also requires a 12v power supply. __________________ Company Website: Digital Foundry Ltd Video Games HD Blog: Digital Foundry@Eurogamer

August 27th, 2007, 07:28 AM	#70
Richard Leadbetter Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 323	Additional graphics cards have been running in that IBM/Lenovo PCIe Advanced Dock I linked to earlier, allowing multiple monitors to be used from one laptop. __________________ Company Website: Digital Foundry Ltd Video Games HD Blog: Digital Foundry@Eurogamer

August 26th, 2007, 08:26 AM	#65
Serge Victorovich Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 376	I hope GetCatalyst is less expensive than MagmaBox. BTW, original "Wearable Computer System" based on mini-ITX GM965 looks as better solution than games with these adapters for laptop, imo:)

August 27th, 2007, 07:06 AM	#67
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Serge, Yep, that adaptor card is just what I was just thinking. This excites me. If there is an PICO/NANO itx MB with Expresscard, and angle adaptors to turn everything into an small package, it could all fit into the palm of our hands. How much processing power is needed to do basic compression? If only they had an way to send the sensor image as an grey scale across HDMI, that would be good for compassion. I have brought this issue up before with other cameras. I suspect some cameras do have sensor test modes like this.

August 27th, 2007, 07:13 AM	#69
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Andrew, thanks for that, expensive relative to something that could do the same job cheaper. I should had realised about the adaptor Serge posted sooner. We have an bright chap in the local Office W and he was commenting about how you couldn't get an 3D card running effectively through Expresscard unless the laptop was designed to disable it's internal graphics, but I didn't find any 3D Expresscards.

August 27th, 2007, 09:52 AM	#73
Joseph H. Moore Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 362	Sheervideo is a codec that has traditionally been pretty easy on CPU's. Of course, uncompressed is really easy on the recording CPU ... but the need for a 3-5 drive array kinda negates that!

August 28th, 2007, 07:03 AM	#75
Serge Victorovich Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 376	Wayne, if you want small dvr for capture to Cineform 1080p24 via Intensity think about santa rosa platform, fsb800, merom T7500-T700... I don't know any pico, nano motherboards with fsb800 to put T7700. Real solution today based on mini-ITX like this: http://www.ibase.com.tw/mi910.htm Socket 478 Core™2 Duo Mini-ITX Motherboard with Intel® GM965 Chipset Cineform is the best balanced codec with less CPU usage than any other. Future is CineformRAW ported to FPGA!;) No need to build the hot and power hungry wintel box:)