24P with Compressor 3

[Clayton Moore]

Those of you who have Final Cut Studio 2, try this in compressor 3 and tell me what you think..... OK?

1. Choose Setting: Advanced Workflows-> Apple Codecs-> Apple ProRes 422 for Progressive material.
2. In the inspector under “frame controls” turn frame controls ON. Then switch “Deinterlace:” to Reverse Telecine.
3. Under Geometry “Frame size” choose 1920 x 1080, “Pixel Aspect:” ..choose Square.

Take a look and let me know what you think ?

[Austin Meyers]

it looks good. i've used a similar workflow using the prores, but lately i've created a preset that removes the pulldown and outputs to 1080p24 HDV, as this will intercut with 24p footage from the pro cams (a1, g1, h1) and uses considerably less space. and the "render in prores" feature is nice. i don't like the new compressor though... but that's a different thread.

[Ben Richardson]

Hi Clayton

I've been testing just this, but I've found a strange anomaly in the workflow.

If you send clips with "Export > Using Compressor..." from FCP6, then the results of the resizing to 1080x1920 are great.

However, if you drag and drop your captured HDV clips into Compressor directly, or create a Compressor droplet (arguably a simpler workflow for large batches), the resizing leaves much to be desired.

Examples attached (screen-grabs from QuickTime Player at 200%).

Anyone else confirm this?

[Austin Meyers]

don't you use the same presets reguardless of how you get the files into compressor? all the stuff i do i leave in native 1440x1080 unless it's a final export and it's going out to the web or some other workflow that has a hard time with non-square pixel aspects.

[Ben Richardson]

It's arguably unnecessary to resize to 1920x1080, but I'm testing for some effects shots, so it's just easier to lose the non-square pixels at this stage.

But using the same presets is my whole point. The ONLY difference in those two grabs, is how the file got into Compressor. Compressor setup was identical in both cases, but the results are different. That's what worries me.

[Clayton Moore]

Thats interesting about the path to the export .... Final Cut Pro or compressor,Ill have to take a closer look at that one, thats very interesting.

[Robert Ducon]

Originally Posted by Ben Richardson

It's arguably unnecessary to resize to 1920x1080, but I'm testing for some effects shots, so it's just easier to lose the non-square pixels at this stage.

But using the same presets is my whole point. The ONLY difference in those two grabs, is how the file got into Compressor. Compressor setup was identical in both cases, but the results are different. That's what worries me.

Ben, I posted in the JES thread.. I noticed the same thing with Compressor.. I've only had the poor result, I have yet to try the alternative way to get the fil into Compressor. Pretty poor.. and damaging to the footage! Never would have suspected it'd do this.

My quess is that Compressor really pays attention to the settings of the sequence when in FCP.. what do you think?

[Vincent DePaul]

Can anyone please provide a step by step workflow to accomplish removal of pulldown?

I am shooting in 24p cinemode. I have final cut studio 2. I capture the footage in Final Cut or Compressor 3? If Final Cut, what settings are used to capture the footage. When the footage is captured, then what? Export to compressor 3?

What steps are then taken in compressor 3? What are the settings used for framerate, etc.(i.e. 24fps or 23.987) to use for encoding? Which codec is used?

When the compression is done, then what? Save the file I guess, but how do I then bring it into FCP exactly? What settings in FCP?

Thanks. This will help tremendously. This whole 24p pulldown business is so frustrating. I'm hoping for a workflow that makes things seamless.

[Jason Pierce]

Vincent,

Here is the workflow I have adopted. Much simpler than using JES, since that program required each clip to be submitted individually.
Compressor 3 will do a batch and you can wander off and let it be.

FIRST - tweak the "pulldown" settings in Compressor (you'll only have to do this once):
1) Launch Compressor
2) Choose Setting: Advanced Workflows-> Apple Codecs-> Apple ProRes 422 for Progressive material.
3) In the inspector under “frame controls” turn frame controls ON. Then switch “Deinterlace:” to Reverse Telecine.
4) Under Geometry “Frame size” choose 1920 x 1080, “Pixel Aspect:” ..choose Square.
5) change the "Destination" (under the "Actions" menu) to someplace useful (by default it is "Source" which turns out to be your boot drive, which can be dangerous)
5) "Save" as another name - I use "HV20 Pulldown"
Quit Compressor.

IMPORTING FROM HV20 (into Final Cut):

1) Use Easy Setup (Final Cut Pro menu - Easy Setup) and select "HDV - 1080i60"
2) create a new project
3) import your footage

REMOVING PULLDOWN (using Compressor 3):

1)Select all clips in the Browser - choose File > Export... > using Compressor
(Compressor will launch and a screen with all the clips will appear.)
2) under the "Target" menu up top, choose "New Target with Setting"
3) select that "HV20 Pulldown" setting you created - it will be under "Custom"
4) submit, and go take a nap or something. It takes a while (I think about 1.5 times as long as the footage is)

GETTING THE PULLDOWN-ed FOOTAGE BACK INTO FINAL CUT
1) find the footage on your hard drive(s) and import it (you may want to delete the original footage out of Final Cut first)


Some Compressor oddness to watch out for - it names the files with really long names. Also - it will put a warning icon next to each item once it starts going - this is because once it starts it does the work in Final Cut, and so Compressor then thinks you want to do it again and write over the files. Just ignore that - you can quit Compressor actually. It is not particularly intuitive to use, in general.

This should make it quick and painless once you've done it once or twice.

Good luck

Jason

[Vincent DePaul]

Thank you for the info Jason. I was going step by step. A few questions.

For the codec, why Apple ProRes 422 for Progressive material instead of the same listing but with (High Quality) adjacent to it?

In geometry, will the choice of 1920x1080 cause any distortion in the image since I believe the canon hv20 is only capable of 1440x1080 or something to that effect?

Last question. For FCP. When finished editing the project, what settings have you used to export it to DVD? I would consider bluray as well, but I don't have one as of yet. Still waiting for a format to win(hd-dvd or bluray) so I thought for now dvd will have to do. I'm trying to find the most common format that is used in short film festivals, etc.

How does the end result look on dvd? Is the downward resolution from hd very noticeable?

[Jason Pierce]

Vincent,

I actually copied those Compressor steps from the first post in this thread, and I forgot that I tweaked things a bit...

You can use high quality - I think I did actually. I forgot there were 2 choices.
Also, I let it choose geometry and it's 1440.

As far as exporting to DVD - use one of the "Best Quality" choices in Compressor. I tend to use 90 Minute "Best Quality" and it looks fine.

The end result depends on what you are viewing it on. I have a decent CRT TV and it looks good. A lousy projector made a project look awful a couple weeks back, and I assume a nice flat-panel with a good DVD player would look very nice indeed.
In other words, the down-res holds up fine as long as you show it on good equipment...

Jason

[Austin Meyers]

downressed dvds are noticably softer than the source material but much crisper than regular dv would look. I use the same work flow as above, and have found it the easiest, also of note you don't have to just use prores I actually remove pulldown on my stuff and have it export back out as hdv24p (to save space) you can remove pulldown and transcode to any format

[Vincent DePaul]

Is hdv24p one of the encoding choices included in the codecs in compressor 3? Or is it something you created on your own. If so, what was the process you used. Thanks!

Also, based on the previous workflow, the result should take out the dropframes and "automatically" provide the desired 24p without any need for putting in settings for framerate such as 23.987 or 24 fps? So one could just import it then into FCP 6 and have no issue whatsoever having 24p recognized by FCP 6?

Thanks in advance for the information!

[Austin Meyers]

i created the settings myself.

the easiest way is to duplicte a preset hdv setting and then change the codec to HDVp24, and depending on if you're reencoding current 24p footage or if you're reverse telecining 60i footage you can set the frame controls accordingly

http://file.meyersproduction.com/hdv24p.png

[Vincent DePaul]

The scenario I am using involves the Canon HV 20. Are you using compressor 3 to capture your footage? I'm assuming you are using FCP 6 for video capture. I have followed the instructions using the easy settings for capture for 1080p60i. Then exported to compressor and followed the rest of the instructions as per this thread.

From the example png you provided, I see the custom info you put in to create the HDV 108024p. Is there any point in the reverse telecine process where you have to enter in the frame rate(23.987 or 24 for example) in order to ensure the correct frame rate or does framerate : 100% source cover you in achieving 24p for the output?

Thanks. Just trying to be as clear as possible. I've already run through the process, but I'd like to try your method to improve efficiency and space.