AVCHD from Canon: HR10 camcorder announced at DVinfo.net

Chris Hurd · May 7th, 2007, 07:01 AM

Canon announced its first AVCHD format camcorder today and they're calling it the HR10.

Basically it's a cross between their HV20 and DC50 camcorders. It records H.264 encoded Mpeg-4 high definition video to a standard Mini-DVD three-inch optical disk. It's the first Canon camcorder to record HD to a standard, off-the-shelf DVD disk which up to this point has always been associated with SD standard definition video only.

The AVCHD format is a tapeless specification that allows for recording high definition video (in this case, a 1080i signal) to either flash memory, hard disk drive, or optical disc media such as DVD. Canon chose to go with DVD for its built-in, instant archive capability.

AVCHD recording times on dual-layer three-inch DVD disks are:

60 minutes using 5mbps highest compression setting;
27 minutes using 12mbps lowest compression setting.

Basically the HR10 is best described as utilizing the guts of the HV20 tape-based HDV high-definition camcorder, and the body of the DC50 disc-based DVD standard definition camcorder.

The lens, image sensor, processor, and most of the feature set of the HR10 is identical to the HV20. It has a single CMOS sensor that's native 1920x1080 on the chip. It uses the Canon Digic DV II image processor. It writes a 1440x1080 anamorphic image to disc in the AVCHD format using the H.264 codec. The 10x lens has nearly the same specifications as the one on the HV20 (6.1mm to 61mm with OIS and a max. aperture of f/1.8), but the filter thread diameter is a little smaller at 37mm.

Most of the HR10 features are identical to the HV20 including 24p, Cine mode, HDMI output and 3.1 megapixel still photo recording to a Mini-SD card (there is no provision for using this flash memory card for video recording).

However, unlike the HV20, there is no Advanced Accessory Shoe nor is there a microphone input on the HR10 (and therefore no manual audio level control either). The battery type is also different -- since the HR10 has a body design similar to the Canon DC50, it uses that camcorder's battery type, which is the BP-208 and similar series. The battery is located in a well beneath the flip-out LCD.

The 2.5" flip-out LCD itself is an improvement over the HV20. It uses a wider color gamut with blacker blacks and a broader viewing angle (135 degrees in each axis).

Basic AVCHD editing software will be included with the camcorder, but I don't have any details as to whose software it will be... possibly Corel? More details are sure to surface soon though.

That's the short story on the HR10, the first in what will most likely be a series of AVCHD camcorders from Canon. It's expected to ship in August with an MSRP of $1199 USD. Click thumbnails below for larger photos.

Chris Hurd · May 7th, 2007, 07:09 AM

The press release for the HR10 from Canon USA is online at http://www.usa.canon.com/html/templa...0507_hr10.html

Wes Vasher · May 7th, 2007, 08:00 AM

Looks like it lacks the manual focus and focus assist of the HV20 as well. The Zoom rocker looks a little nicer than the HV20, but that's just from looking at the picture.

Chris Hurd · May 7th, 2007, 08:14 AM

Actually it does have manual focus, but it lacks the little focus adjustment wheel of the HV20.

Re: Focus Assist, as in Peaking & Magnifying, I'll have to check on that...

Chris Hurd · May 7th, 2007, 12:31 PM

Confirmed by Canon USA, that the Focus Assist features of the HR10 are identical to the HV20.

Paulo Teixeira · May 7th, 2007, 03:45 PM

I was told by a Canon Representative 2 months ago that they were going to announce an AVCHD camcorder in June. It’s smart that they decided to show it early. Or maybe they have another AVCHD camcorder that will be announced in June.

Chris Hurd · May 7th, 2007, 04:20 PM

This one doesn't ship until August, so it wouldn't surprise me if they announce another AVCHD model in June.

Paulo Teixeira · May 7th, 2007, 04:37 PM

I know its 3 months away and that’s why it’s smart announcing this camcorder early. This way, it’ll prevent some people from purchasing AVCHD camcorders from Sony and Panasonic if they care about 24p although flash based camcorders are becoming popular.

Whoever releases the first consumer mini Blu-Ray disc AVCHD camcorder will smash the competition. That's 33 gigs per disc.

Tony Tibbetts · May 7th, 2007, 07:00 PM

Interesting. AVCHD supports 24p. Does this mean that there will be no pulldown applied to the footage? It does state that it is 1080i. I wonder...

Mike Tesh · May 8th, 2007, 05:13 AM

I wonder if the HDMI output is the same as it is on the HV20, 4:2:2 ability. I assume so being as it uses the same guts.

I'm also curious what the street price will be. But time will tell I guess.

Thank you Canon, you seem to be getting smarter about your consumer offerings. 24p in a camera that will probably sell for under a grand, and if the HDMI is also uncompressed then wow!

Wes Vasher · May 8th, 2007, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Tibbetts

Interesting. AVCHD supports 24p. Does this mean that there will be no pulldown applied to the footage? It does state that it is 1080i. I wonder...

That's a great question. It would be pretty nice if this were so.

I would wish for an SD+Disc camcorder, as in record full video to an SD or miniSD card along with Disc recording.

Steven Cowie · May 8th, 2007, 09:04 AM

Interesting unit.. If it still shoots SD as an Mpeg-2 miniDVD disc that folks can drop straight into a set top player I can see the point of them wanting to retain the disc recording format, but otherwise I'd much rather they just bit the bullet and went for a straight to SD card recording solution.

Paulo Teixeira · May 8th, 2007, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Cowie

Interesting unit.. If it still shoots SD as an Mpeg-2 miniDVD disc that folks can drop straight into a set top player I can see the point of them wanting to retain the disc recording format, but otherwise I'd much rather they just bit the bullet and went for a straight to SD card recording solution.

I’m much more into flash based camcorders myself but at least you are able to put the discs into a PS3 and view the AVCHD footage.

Henrik Andersson · May 18th, 2007, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

The lens, image sensor, processor, and most of the feature set of the HR10 is identical to the HV20. It has a single CMOS sensor that's native 1920x1080 on the chip. It uses the Canon Digic DV II image processor. It writes a 1440x1080 anamorphic image to disc in the AVCHD format using the H.264 codec. The 10x lens has nearly the same specifications as the one on the HV20 (6.1mm to 61mm with OIS and a max. aperture of f/1.8), but the filter thread diameter is a little smaller at 37mm.

Is it confirmed that the HR10 downscale from 1920 to 1440 too, same as HV10 and HV20 ?

AVCHD support 1920x1080 if I don't remember wrong.

/Henrik

Chris Hurd · May 18th, 2007, 07:22 AM

An excellent question, Henrik. According to my notes (having discussed the particulars of this camcorder with the marketing department of Canon USA's video division), it is indeed outputting 1440 x 1080 anamorphic, in just the same manner as the HDV camcorders which share the same 1920 x 1080 CMOS sensor and Digic DV II processor as the HR10. The processing engine and the image output are the same; only the encoding format and the recording medium have changed. Hope this helps,

May 7th, 2007, 07:01 AM	#1
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	AVCHD from Canon: HR10 camcorder announced Canon announced its first AVCHD format camcorder today and they're calling it the HR10. Basically it's a cross between their HV20 and DC50 camcorders. It records H.264 encoded Mpeg-4 high definition video to a standard Mini-DVD three-inch optical disk. It's the first Canon camcorder to record HD to a standard, off-the-shelf DVD disk which up to this point has always been associated with SD standard definition video only. The AVCHD format is a tapeless specification that allows for recording high definition video (in this case, a 1080i signal) to either flash memory, hard disk drive, or optical disc media such as DVD. Canon chose to go with DVD for its built-in, instant archive capability. AVCHD recording times on dual-layer three-inch DVD disks are: 60 minutes using 5mbps highest compression setting; 27 minutes using 12mbps lowest compression setting. Basically the HR10 is best described as utilizing the guts of the HV20 tape-based HDV high-definition camcorder, and the body of the DC50 disc-based DVD standard definition camcorder. The lens, image sensor, processor, and most of the feature set of the HR10 is identical to the HV20. It has a single CMOS sensor that's native 1920x1080 on the chip. It uses the Canon Digic DV II image processor. It writes a 1440x1080 anamorphic image to disc in the AVCHD format using the H.264 codec. The 10x lens has nearly the same specifications as the one on the HV20 (6.1mm to 61mm with OIS and a max. aperture of f/1.8), but the filter thread diameter is a little smaller at 37mm. Most of the HR10 features are identical to the HV20 including 24p, Cine mode, HDMI output and 3.1 megapixel still photo recording to a Mini-SD card (there is no provision for using this flash memory card for video recording). However, unlike the HV20, there is no Advanced Accessory Shoe nor is there a microphone input on the HR10 (and therefore no manual audio level control either). The battery type is also different -- since the HR10 has a body design similar to the Canon DC50, it uses that camcorder's battery type, which is the BP-208 and similar series. The battery is located in a well beneath the flip-out LCD. The 2.5" flip-out LCD itself is an improvement over the HV20. It uses a wider color gamut with blacker blacks and a broader viewing angle (135 degrees in each axis). Basic AVCHD editing software will be included with the camcorder, but I don't have any details as to whose software it will be... possibly Corel? More details are sure to surface soon though. That's the short story on the HR10, the first in what will most likely be a series of AVCHD camcorders from Canon. It's expected to ship in August with an MSRP of $1199 USD. Click thumbnails below for larger photos. Attached Thumbnails __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

May 7th, 2007, 07:09 AM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	The press release for the HR10 from Canon USA is online at http://www.usa.canon.com/html/templa...0507_hr10.html __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

May 7th, 2007, 08:00 AM	#3
Wes Vasher Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 440	Looks like it lacks the manual focus and focus assist of the HV20 as well. The Zoom rocker looks a little nicer than the HV20, but that's just from looking at the picture. __________________ Clips \| Stills

May 7th, 2007, 08:14 AM	#4
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Actually it does have manual focus, but it lacks the little focus adjustment wheel of the HV20. Re: Focus Assist, as in Peaking & Magnifying, I'll have to check on that... __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

May 7th, 2007, 12:31 PM	#5
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Confirmed by Canon USA, that the Focus Assist features of the HR10 are identical to the HV20. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

May 7th, 2007, 03:45 PM	#6
Paulo Teixeira Trustee Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 1,773	I was told by a Canon Representative 2 months ago that they were going to announce an AVCHD camcorder in June. It’s smart that they decided to show it early. Or maybe they have another AVCHD camcorder that will be announced in June. __________________ https://www.youtube.com/user/PhotoVi...esEtc/featured https://www.pond5.com/artist/paulot Last edited by Paulo Teixeira; May 7th, 2007 at 04:23 PM.

May 7th, 2007, 04:20 PM	#7
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	This one doesn't ship until August, so it wouldn't surprise me if they announce another AVCHD model in June. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

May 7th, 2007, 04:37 PM	#8
Paulo Teixeira Trustee Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 1,773	I know its 3 months away and that’s why it’s smart announcing this camcorder early. This way, it’ll prevent some people from purchasing AVCHD camcorders from Sony and Panasonic if they care about 24p although flash based camcorders are becoming popular. Whoever releases the first consumer mini Blu-Ray disc AVCHD camcorder will smash the competition. That's 33 gigs per disc. __________________ https://www.youtube.com/user/PhotoVi...esEtc/featured https://www.pond5.com/artist/paulot Last edited by Paulo Teixeira; May 7th, 2007 at 05:45 PM.

May 7th, 2007, 07:00 PM	#9
Tony Tibbetts Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 385	Interesting. AVCHD supports 24p. Does this mean that there will be no pulldown applied to the footage? It does state that it is 1080i. I wonder...

May 8th, 2007, 05:13 AM	#10
Mike Tesh Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Detroit MI Posts: 253	I wonder if the HDMI output is the same as it is on the HV20, 4:2:2 ability. I assume so being as it uses the same guts. I'm also curious what the street price will be. But time will tell I guess. Thank you Canon, you seem to be getting smarter about your consumer offerings. 24p in a camera that will probably sell for under a grand, and if the HDMI is also uncompressed then wow! __________________ ScapeFilms.com \| My Photography \| IMDB Profile

May 8th, 2007, 09:04 AM	#12
Steven Cowie Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Glasgow United Kingdom Posts: 32	Interesting unit.. If it still shoots SD as an Mpeg-2 miniDVD disc that folks can drop straight into a set top player I can see the point of them wanting to retain the disc recording format, but otherwise I'd much rather they just bit the bullet and went for a straight to SD card recording solution.

May 18th, 2007, 07:22 AM	#15
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	An excellent question, Henrik. According to my notes (having discussed the particulars of this camcorder with the marketing department of Canon USA's video division), it is indeed outputting 1440 x 1080 anamorphic, in just the same manner as the HDV camcorders which share the same 1920 x 1080 CMOS sensor and Digic DV II processor as the HR10. The processing engine and the image output are the same; only the encoding format and the recording medium have changed. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!