My new 24p workflow on the Mac

Hal Snook · April 30th, 2007, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ Lewis

So (noob question, I know) what settings do you use FCP for initial capture, if using this work flow?

I capture using HDV Firewire Basic, and I uncheck "Create new clip on Start/Stop." That's optional, of course, but I like having an entire tape as one clip.

JES will handle Apple Intermediate Codec files as well, so you could certainly capture that way instead.

Elmer Lang · May 1st, 2007, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hal Snook

[M]aybe your FCP timeline isn't set up properly... make sure your timebase is set to 23.98 and the codec is set to Photo-JPEG.

The only Photo-JPEG codec I see is the RT OfflineHD (Photo-JPEG).

Placed in a sequence with that codec the clip will play after rendering. It'd be nice not to have to render.

Heath McKnight · May 1st, 2007, 04:34 PM

Which version of FCP do you have? Under Sequence Settings, you'll see QuickTime Video Settings. In there, set it to Photo - Jpeg, Quality at 75%.

heath

Ray Neil · May 1st, 2007, 10:31 PM

I've heard this JESdeinterlacer program didn't have the capability to do FULL QUALITY output, but only did half. Did they come out with a newer/updated version? Meaning, if you wanted to have the same HDV quality that you input, you couldn't have it. It would output half the quality... Weird by that's what I heard

Hal Snook · May 1st, 2007, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Neil

I've heard this JESdeinterlacer program didn't have the capability to do FULL QUALITY output, but only did half. Did they come out with a newer/updated version? Meaning, if you wanted to have the same HDV quality that you input, you couldn't have it. It would output half the quality... Weird by that's what I heard

I've checked its output side-by-side with the original HDV, and my eye can discern no difference.

Anyway, it's a light, free program, so I'd encourage everyone to experiment with it and see if they find it up to snuff.

Bruce Allen · May 3rd, 2007, 03:32 PM

Hal, thanks for the info!

Bruce

Elmer Lang · May 3rd, 2007, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

Which version of FCP do you have? Under Sequence Settings, you'll see QuickTime Video Settings. In there, set it to Photo - Jpeg, Quality at 75%.

heath

I see it now! Thanks, Heath!

@ Hal

We much appreciate your clueing us in to this little app!

best,
elmer

Heath McKnight · May 3rd, 2007, 09:15 PM

No problem, Elmer. Just remember, Photo - Jpeg at 75% quality gives you 4:2:2 YCbCr. Use it for DV, too.

heath

ps-Graeme Nattress of www.nattress.com and RED Digital Cinema fame was the one who originally told me about this in 2005.

Don Swetz · May 15th, 2007, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ps-Graeme Nattress of [url

www.nattress.com[/url] and RED Digital Cinema fame was the one who originally told me about this in 2005.

i just emailed Graeme, and he indicated that Nattress' Film Effects would not do this job... which is a shame.

If it did, there's no chance i wouldn't pick it up - i wonder if we could prod him into adding it, seeing as how the HV20 keeps getting picked as a "best of"... there's going to be a lot of people using these as backup cameras and cameras put into harm's way in lieu of higher-end units.

Heath McKnight · May 15th, 2007, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Swetz

i just emailed Graeme, and he indicated that Nattress' Film Effects would not do this job... which is a shame.

If it did, there's no chance i wouldn't pick it up - i wonder if we could prod him into adding it, seeing as how the HV20 keeps getting picked as a "best of"... there's going to be a lot of people using these as backup cameras and cameras put into harm's way in lieu of higher-end units.

Don, specifically what did Graeme say Nattress couldn't do? Remove the HDV pulldown?

heath

Don Swetz · May 15th, 2007, 04:13 PM

Here's my email to Graeme -
Subj: Film Effects and HV20

I'm shooting in the HDV 1080p24 mode which is telecined into HDV 1080i60. Also, each cut has a different cadence, meaning that i have to go thru and manually set the cadence each time i hit the rec/pause button outside of Final Cut with Cinema Tools. After all of that hard work - it actually looks pretty great... but the workflow is 3 additional steps and 4 times as long as using regular DV.

Would your Film Effects software

1. be compatible with FCS2 (they had me at "Smoothcam")
2. be able to automagically detect the cadence and bring me the 24p footage i'm longing for?

Thanks in advance.

Here is his reply...

Hi Don,
Yes, it's a right pain to remove pulldown and I don't have anything that helps here either.....

so 1) yes
2) no.

The code in Film Effects (that does the image processing) can do really nice things to the images, whether they're 24p, 60i or whatever, but the 60i to 24p conversion is only for normal 60i footage.

Graeme
______

btw: my workflow...
HV20 in 1080p24 mode -> DVHSCap over firewire to .m2t files -> MPEG Streamclip to AIC -> Cinema Tools -> AIC with reversed telecine

Heath McKnight · May 15th, 2007, 06:19 PM

I checked my notes from NAB and I remember stopping by the Apple booth and seeing a V1u, so what does that mean for us? I can guess, grin.

heath

Austin Meyers · May 15th, 2007, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Swetz

btw: my workflow...
HV20 in 1080p24 mode -> DVHSCap over firewire to .m2t files -> MPEG Streamclip to AIC -> Cinema Tools -> AIC with reversed telecine

why not capture w/ FCP directly to AIC? i've been captureing to AIC then running that through the JES deinterlacer app, which does auto removal and batch processing, and can then output to back to AIC, photo-jpeg, HDV, or any other codec you want... it will remove pulldown on HDV files too, i'm currently playing with that...

on side note does anyone else have random issues with the JES deinterlacer? every once in a while there is a file that just won't do as it's supposed to, and JES quits mid stream

Don Swetz · May 15th, 2007, 09:15 PM

well, Final Cut doesn't treat HDV as 1920x1080 - it does it 1440x1080.

I convert .m2t's to AIC using MPEGStreamclip, and during that conversion, i make the files "native" 1920x1080. So that takes care of frame size.

Everything from that point on is done in the size i'm going to be working with in the end. When i reverse telecine the clips in Cinema Tools, there it is - just the clip i was looking for.

i've built a AIC 1920x1080p24 easy setting in FCP - bam. it all seems to work for me. I don't want to work in 1440x1080i60 - since that's not my final output.

i've looked at http://www.hdvxdv.com/ - and its obvious that they used DVHSCap as the base for their product, but i can't figure out what i get for $80 vs. the way i'm doing it.

i think i asked this question a few years ago when they made the DVDxDV product which took DVD video and transcoded it into .DV... in both cases, i used MPEGStreamclip to get to where i wanted to go.

Heath McKnight · May 15th, 2007, 09:20 PM

Where do you find DVHSCap? The Apple developer page? I think I downloaded it.

heath

May 1st, 2007, 04:34 PM	#18
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Which version of FCP do you have? Under Sequence Settings, you'll see QuickTime Video Settings. In there, set it to Photo - Jpeg, Quality at 75%. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

May 3rd, 2007, 09:15 PM	#23
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	No problem, Elmer. Just remember, Photo - Jpeg at 75% quality gives you 4:2:2 YCbCr. Use it for DV, too. heath ps-Graeme Nattress of www.nattress.com and RED Digital Cinema fame was the one who originally told me about this in 2005. __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

May 15th, 2007, 04:13 PM	#26
Don Swetz New Boot Join Date: May 2007 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 6	Here's my email to Graeme - Subj: Film Effects and HV20 I'm shooting in the HDV 1080p24 mode which is telecined into HDV 1080i60. Also, each cut has a different cadence, meaning that i have to go thru and manually set the cadence each time i hit the rec/pause button outside of Final Cut with Cinema Tools. After all of that hard work - it actually looks pretty great... but the workflow is 3 additional steps and 4 times as long as using regular DV. Would your Film Effects software 1. be compatible with FCS2 (they had me at "Smoothcam") 2. be able to automagically detect the cadence and bring me the 24p footage i'm longing for? Thanks in advance. Here is his reply... Hi Don, Yes, it's a right pain to remove pulldown and I don't have anything that helps here either..... so 1) yes 2) no. The code in Film Effects (that does the image processing) can do really nice things to the images, whether they're 24p, 60i or whatever, but the 60i to 24p conversion is only for normal 60i footage. Graeme ______ btw: my workflow... HV20 in 1080p24 mode -> DVHSCap over firewire to .m2t files -> MPEG Streamclip to AIC -> Cinema Tools -> AIC with reversed telecine Last edited by Don Swetz; May 15th, 2007 at 04:19 PM. Reason: (wanted to give my workflow)

May 15th, 2007, 06:19 PM	#27
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I checked my notes from NAB and I remember stopping by the Apple booth and seeing a V1u, so what does that mean for us? I can guess, grin. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

May 15th, 2007, 09:20 PM	#30
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Where do you find DVHSCap? The Apple developer page? I think I downloaded it. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

May 1st, 2007, 10:31 PM	#19
Ray Neil New Boot Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: New York Posts: 10	I've heard this JESdeinterlacer program didn't have the capability to do FULL QUALITY output, but only did half. Did they come out with a newer/updated version? Meaning, if you wanted to have the same HDV quality that you input, you couldn't have it. It would output half the quality... Weird by that's what I heard

May 3rd, 2007, 03:32 PM	#21
Bruce Allen Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 43	Hal, thanks for the info! Bruce

May 15th, 2007, 09:15 PM	#29
Don Swetz New Boot Join Date: May 2007 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 6	well, Final Cut doesn't treat HDV as 1920x1080 - it does it 1440x1080. I convert .m2t's to AIC using MPEGStreamclip, and during that conversion, i make the files "native" 1920x1080. So that takes care of frame size. Everything from that point on is done in the size i'm going to be working with in the end. When i reverse telecine the clips in Cinema Tools, there it is - just the clip i was looking for. i've built a AIC 1920x1080p24 easy setting in FCP - bam. it all seems to work for me. I don't want to work in 1440x1080i60 - since that's not my final output. i've looked at http://www.hdvxdv.com/ - and its obvious that they used DVHSCap as the base for their product, but i can't figure out what i get for $80 vs. the way i'm doing it. i think i asked this question a few years ago when they made the DVDxDV product which took DVD video and transcoded it into .DV... in both cases, i used MPEGStreamclip to get to where i wanted to go.