Intensity doesn't support HV20 at DVinfo.net

Derek Green · April 23rd, 2007, 05:10 PM

Has anyone here heard anything official from BlackMagic when/if the HV20 will be supported? I'm starting to wonder if I should return the card and HDMI cables I bought while I still can...

Wes Vasher · April 23rd, 2007, 08:01 PM

Blackmagic told me they have not tested the camera yet, not very official but I'm sure they wouldn't mind me passing that along. The theory is that it is an HDCP issue, perhaps Canon has HDCP turned on and that's why it will only capture to 480i. Somehow I don't think it's going to work anytime soon. Bummer.

Robert Ducon · April 23rd, 2007, 08:25 PM

What/why would Canon turn HDCP on (if this is what's causing it, in theory)? To either:

a) Prevent people from using this camera instead of buying the XL H1

OR

b) To allow the footage to play on an HDCP complient system? (I don't know enough about HDCP at all.. this is a guess..)

OR

c) Other reasons?

Derek Green · April 23rd, 2007, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wes Vasher

Blackmagic told me they have not tested the camera yet, not very official but I'm sure they wouldn't mind me passing that along. The theory is that it is an HDCP issue, perhaps Canon has HDCP turned on and that's why it will only capture to 480i. Somehow I don't think it's going to work anytime soon. Bummer.

Thanks Wes. This may be something Canon would have to address in a firmware update. It would be very disappointing not to be able to use the HDMI for capture. Not to mention even just using my computer screen as a shooting monitor. This was definitely a selling point for me in choosing this camera. Do you think it would do any good to run the signal through a HDCP signal stripper? I remember seeing some on the net awhile back.

Wes Vasher · April 24th, 2007, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Green

Thanks Wes. This may be something Canon would have to address in a firmware update. It would be very disappointing not to be able to use the HDMI for capture. Not to mention even just using my computer screen as a shooting monitor. This was definitely a selling point for me in choosing this camera. Do you think it would do any good to run the signal through a HDCP signal stripper? I remember seeing some on the net awhile back.

You should be able to connect it to any HDMI HDCP-compatible display and see the 1080i, you just can't capture it. Again, the HDCP thing is just an assumption, it might not be the problem.

Thomas Smet · April 24th, 2007, 07:50 AM

We could always buy the Intensity Pro card which is $100.00 more but also captures from component. Until the HDMI thing gets fixed you could capture via component for almost the same level of quality. Having component may also be nice if you have any older HDV cameras or want to capture from older HD devices.

Derek Green · April 24th, 2007, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wes Vasher

You should be able to connect it to any HDMI HDCP-compatible display and see the 1080i, you just can't capture it. Again, the HDCP thing is just an assumption, it might not be the problem.

According to the manual, not necessarily. Here's what it says:

Page 69
"Correct operations cannot be guaranteed when connecting the camcorder to DVI monitors."

And more ominous:

"Some HDTV's have their HDCP digital content protection configured so as not to allow the playback of personal content (video recorded for personal uses). If you cannot play back the video recorded with this camcorder on your HDTV using the HDMI connection, try connecting the camcorder using the video component connection -1connection type- instead."

Harm Millaard · April 24th, 2007, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Green

It would be very disappointing not to be able to use the HDMI for capture. Not to mention even just using my computer screen as a shooting monitor. This was definitely a selling point for me in choosing this camera. Do you think it would do any good to run the signal through a HDCP signal stripper? I remember seeing some on the net awhile back.

Use fire wire for capture, it makes no difference, you don't need HDMI for capture.

Derek Green · April 24th, 2007, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harm Millaard

Use fire wire for capture, it makes no difference, you don't need HDMI for capture.

Harm, how is capturing a live HDMI feed and avoiding HDV compression not a difference? If you mean capturing footage already recorded to tape then yes, you are correct, there is no difference. But that's not why people want this card and that's not how this card is being marketed. That's not what the Intensity is about.

Harm Millaard · April 24th, 2007, 09:45 AM

Derek,

I just made one assumption too much, assuming you are using a camera, that is a lightweight, highly mobile one and not directly a studio camera in the field, instead of in a studio. I have seen so many posts about people assuming that the HDMI connection 'by definition' means uncompressed 4:2:2 streams, that I guessed wrong. You are absolutely correct for studio work, where you can lug your workstation, keyboard and monitor to attach to your camera, even if you have no real maneuverability with the short HDMI cable, you benefit from the HDMI connection.

Just out of curiosity, how - in practical terms - would you weigh that advantage of unplugging all connections on your workstation, load it, including monitor, keyboard, external raid array, etc. in your car, drive to a studio 50 miles away, set it all up again, connect it to a 10 feet HDMI cable and shoot with this camera, losing all mobility? After the shoot you have to pack it all again, drive back and re-install your workstation. This does not make much sense to me. It does make sense if you have a studio with your workstation permanently installed. Please enlighten me. Thanks.

Derek Green · April 24th, 2007, 10:03 AM

Honestly, I'm not sure why someone would want to go through all that trouble you've described. I guess it could be done if the person was willing to put a little effort into it. Personally, my studio is in my home, so I don't have to move any of my equipment. So mobility isn't really an issue for me. If I want to shoot outdoors, I shoot to tape.

Harm Millaard · April 24th, 2007, 10:09 AM

Derek, that clears it up. Thanks. Hope that Cineform will shortly update their drivers.

Wes Vasher · April 24th, 2007, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Green

According to the manual, not necessarily. Here's what it says:

Page 69
"Correct operations cannot be guaranteed when connecting the camcorder to DVI monitors."

And more ominous:

"Some HDTV's have their HDCP digital content protection configured so as not to allow the playback of personal content (video recorded for personal uses). If you cannot play back the video recorded with this camcorder on your HDTV using the HDMI connection, try connecting the camcorder using the video component connection -1connection type- instead."

I want to beat HDCP to a bloody pulp. I hope my sudden violent tendency does not offend anyone. DRM, I'm so glad it's here to "manage our rights".

Intensity Pro sounds like a pretty good deal though.

Heinz Bihlmeir · April 24th, 2007, 09:38 PM

There is no HDCP encryption on the HV20 HDMI output. If the HDMI handshake with the target device succeeds, the camera generates an unencrypted 1080i YCrCb (444) signal in HDV mode or 480i (576i) in DV mode. If not, the output defaults to DVI RGB 480p (576p). BM supports RGB (444) or YCrCb (422) only.

Btw: The HD-Connect MI HDMI to SDI converter now operates correctly with the HV20 (FW 1.37).

Daymon Hoffman · April 25th, 2007, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wes Vasher

I want to beat HDCP to a bloody pulp. I hope my sudden violent tendency does not offend anyone. DRM, I'm so glad it's here to "manage our rights".

Intensity Pro sounds like a pretty good deal though.

If my violent tendency towards HDCP is used in co-operation with yours, do you think it would bring it all to a crumbled end? *hopes*

I wanted a BM Intensity card to cap HV20 style before-hdv compression and gaming footage from PlayStaion 3's HDMI port. But i can cap neither! The PS3 doesnt even turn "off" CP when its in the menu's and games and turn it on for just movies (which would be fine!). #$%$#% :(

April 23rd, 2007, 05:10 PM	#1
Derek Green Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 62	Intensity doesn't support HV20 Has anyone here heard anything official from BlackMagic when/if the HV20 will be supported? I'm starting to wonder if I should return the card and HDMI cables I bought while I still can...

April 23rd, 2007, 08:01 PM	#2
Wes Vasher Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 440	Blackmagic told me they have not tested the camera yet, not very official but I'm sure they wouldn't mind me passing that along. The theory is that it is an HDCP issue, perhaps Canon has HDCP turned on and that's why it will only capture to 480i. Somehow I don't think it's going to work anytime soon. Bummer. __________________ Clips \| Stills

April 23rd, 2007, 08:25 PM	#3
Robert Ducon Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Victoria BC Posts: 400	What/why would Canon turn HDCP on (if this is what's causing it, in theory)? To either: a) Prevent people from using this camera instead of buying the XL H1 OR b) To allow the footage to play on an HDCP complient system? (I don't know enough about HDCP at all.. this is a guess..) OR c) Other reasons? __________________ Mac + Canon HV20

April 24th, 2007, 07:50 AM	#6
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	We could always buy the Intensity Pro card which is $100.00 more but also captures from component. Until the HDMI thing gets fixed you could capture via component for almost the same level of quality. Having component may also be nice if you have any older HDV cameras or want to capture from older HD devices.

April 24th, 2007, 09:45 AM	#10
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	Derek, I just made one assumption too much, assuming you are using a camera, that is a lightweight, highly mobile one and not directly a studio camera in the field, instead of in a studio. I have seen so many posts about people assuming that the HDMI connection 'by definition' means uncompressed 4:2:2 streams, that I guessed wrong. You are absolutely correct for studio work, where you can lug your workstation, keyboard and monitor to attach to your camera, even if you have no real maneuverability with the short HDMI cable, you benefit from the HDMI connection. Just out of curiosity, how - in practical terms - would you weigh that advantage of unplugging all connections on your workstation, load it, including monitor, keyboard, external raid array, etc. in your car, drive to a studio 50 miles away, set it all up again, connect it to a 10 feet HDMI cable and shoot with this camera, losing all mobility? After the shoot you have to pack it all again, drive back and re-install your workstation. This does not make much sense to me. It does make sense if you have a studio with your workstation permanently installed. Please enlighten me. Thanks.

April 24th, 2007, 10:03 AM	#11
Derek Green Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 62	Honestly, I'm not sure why someone would want to go through all that trouble you've described. I guess it could be done if the person was willing to put a little effort into it. Personally, my studio is in my home, so I don't have to move any of my equipment. So mobility isn't really an issue for me. If I want to shoot outdoors, I shoot to tape.

April 24th, 2007, 10:09 AM	#12
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	Derek, that clears it up. Thanks. Hope that Cineform will shortly update their drivers.

April 24th, 2007, 09:38 PM	#14
Heinz Bihlmeir Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Munich Germany Posts: 34	There is no HDCP encryption on the HV20 HDMI output. If the HDMI handshake with the target device succeeds, the camera generates an unencrypted 1080i YCrCb (444) signal in HDV mode or 480i (576i) in DV mode. If not, the output defaults to DVI RGB 480p (576p). BM supports RGB (444) or YCrCb (422) only. Btw: The HD-Connect MI HDMI to SDI converter now operates correctly with the HV20 (FW 1.37).