Intensity doesn't support HV20

[Derek Green]

Originally Posted by Terence Krueger

derek.. what!?

thats nutty. i wonder what could be wrong with that cable that it would trigger the low res output.

good to know its working though and its something super simple for other people to check if they have issues.

terence

I know! who would have thought... what is really ironic about this is, I bought the Velocity cable first, but UPS screwed up my delivery so I went and picked up the Energy cable from Sears. When the Velocity cable arrived a week late, I threw it in storage not wanting to open the package because I was going to sell it since I already had another cable. You were the first person on the net to post about it working, so it got me thinking to trouble shoot the rest of the pipeline. So, basically, if my cable had of arrived on time, none of this would have happened.

Hey, with the NEOHD, are you able to get a signal on 10bit setting? I'm only getting a signal on 8bit.

[Derek Green]

Originally Posted by John Hotze

I think you may have stumbled onto why there is such a broad price range in HDMI cables. When I bought mine at Best Buy they went from one brand at about $60 to a Monster at $120 for a basic 6 foot I think. Guess I won't bother adding any to my toolkit with the off brand Internet HDMI's for under $20. Guess the old adage - "You get what you pay for" is pretty true in the long run.

Yeah, I guess hey. The Energy was $40, I think it's 3 feet. The Velocity was around $80 but it's a 15 footer. From what I've read ALL HDMI cables support 1080i, which is what the HV20 is putting out. For a cable to only support DV resolution is insane. There's really no point since HDMI is all about HD resolution.

[Roy Colquitt]

Originally Posted by Derek Green

It WAS the HDMI cable! It wouldn't allow a 1080 signal, just a 480.

ENERGY HDMI CABLE = BAD
VELOCITY HDMI CABLE = GOOD

When you say Velocity HDMI cable, do you mean the Cables to Go brand "Velocity" HDMI cable?

That's what I com up with on a web search.

http://www.compusa.com/products/prod...ity_HDMI_Cable

That's apparently their "cheap" model.

[Terence Krueger]

my friend is trying to fix his dvinfo account, he cant post for some reason. ill let him answer any usage questions, im sick of being middleman :)

hdmi will downgrade the signal if it doesnt get the right feedback from teh display(capture card in this case). the only thing i can think of is the cable not having the right impredence and the camera didnt like it. i bet most people who buy these cables cant tell the difference between HD and SD and wouldnt know to complain. i forced a best buy employee to hook up the hv20 to a 1080p tv for me, he couldnt understand why i wanted to do that because "HDV is an uncompressed format".

terence

[David Newman]

Originally Posted by Derek Green

Hey, with the NEOHD, are you able to get a signal on 10bit setting? I'm only getting a signal on 8bit.

Camera is only sending 8-bit, yet the compression upconverts it to 10 automatically. If you had a 10-bit HDMI source you can directly support that from NEO HD or 2K (not NEO HDV.)

[Roy Colquitt]

Originally Posted by Derek Green

From what I've read ALL HDMI cables support 1080i, which is what the HV20 is putting out. For a cable to only support DV resolution is insane. There's really no point since HDMI is all about HD resolution.

If a cable or certain cables work, it would have to be more a matter of a quirk between the HV20 and Intensity rather than being the case that some HDMI cables "don't support HD"

In my setup, the same cable that's not working between the HV20 and Intensity works fine between the HV20 and a 1080i HDTV.

[Derek Green]

Originally Posted by Roy Colquitt

When you say Velocity HDMI cable, do you mean the Cables to Go brand "Velocity" HDMI cable?

That's what I com up with on a web search.

http://www.compusa.com/products/prod...ity_HDMI_Cable

That's apparently their "cheap" model.

I don't think that's the same brand. The one I have is called IMPACT ACOUSTICS VELOCITY HDMI. I got it from a Canadian online retailer tigerdirect.ca

[Derek Green]

Originally Posted by David Newman

Camera is only sending 8-bit, yet the compression upconverts it to 10 automatically. If you had a 10-bit HDMI source you can directly support that from NEO HD or 2K (not NEO HDV.)

Hi David, I understand the camera is only putting out 8bit and the Intensity is only capturing 8bit, but, if I understand you correctly, you're saying if you set NEO HD to capture 1080 4:2:2 8bit, it'll upconvert the 8bit signal to 10bit anyways? Do I understand you correctly on that?

As a side observation, without the HDV compression masking the picture and seeing the uncompressed monitor picture so clean, it's sure ALOT easier to see the 8bit limitations and color banding from the 8bit signal.

[Terence Krueger]

"As a side observation, without the HDV compression masking the picture and seeing the uncompressed monitor picture so clean, it's sure ALOT easier to see the 8bit limitations and color banding from the 8bit signal"

you are probvably mostly seeing the limitations of the monitor assuming its an lcd, as they are prone to banding particualrly in the darks. the limits of 8 bit arent perceptable to the eye usually. every display outside a few higher end tv's inputs an 8 bit signal. notebook lcd's are 6 bit. the limits of 8 bit show up when trying to manipulate the footage, which is inherently reducing the amount of colour info.

saving as a 10 bit format, even if you only started with 8 bits will allow you some headroom in post. (similar to how its better to convert to 16 bit in photoshop to adjust curves and such, then switch back when completed) you dont gain any colour info, but you lose less.

its a bit dissapointing that the camera only outputs 8 bit, but based on the footage, i dont think the sensor has much more than 8 bits dynamic range anyway, so it wont make a huge difference.

terence.

[Solomon Chase]

Originally Posted by Terence Krueger

3 drive bays in a notebook, ive never seen that. theyd have to support raid too (windows software raid may or may not work well).

i think youve confused maximum write speed and sustained write speed though. because a drive is a disk spinning at a constant speed, the begining of the writing and the end can have wildly different speeds. plus due to the controller etc it will fluctuate. for something like real time capture you need to look at the minimum write speed, which for the seagate 7200.2 160gb is a tiny bit over 30mB/s

The laptop with three hard drives has Intel's ICH8R hardware RAID. Very fast and efficient chipset. Supports SATA150/300 RAID 0/1/5. Laptop model is "CLEVO D900C" coming out in a few weeks.

http://www.clevo.com.tw/products/D900C.asp

And you are right about the write speed. Minimum should be closer to 40-45MB/s since it claims a 22% faster performance than the seagate 7200.2 you mentioned. 3x40MB/s is 120MB, which any overhead would bring it under the target rate for uncompressed. (very close though)

[Terence Krueger]

the target rate for uncompressed is 150mB/s for 10 bit. which is what most people would want i think.

edit: also 22% faster than 30mB/s is 37mB/s.
and that "notebook" isnt really a notebook. its a folding desktop. the batteries in the old version lasts 15 -20 mins tops. i dont see this one being any better with even more stuff in it and the hard disks under full load. it also weighs nearly 15 lbs.


terence

[Derek Green]

Originally Posted by Terence Krueger

you are probvably mostly seeing the limitations of the monitor assuming its an lcd, as they are prone to banding particualrly in the darks. the limits of 8 bit arent perceptable to the eye usually. every display outside a few higher end tv's inputs an 8 bit signal. notebook lcd's are 6 bit. the limits of 8 bit show up when trying to manipulate the footage, which is inherently reducing the amount of colour info.

saving as a 10 bit format, even if you only started with 8 bits will allow you some headroom in post. (similar to how its better to convert to 16 bit in photoshop to adjust curves and such, then switch back when completed) you dont gain any colour info, but you lose less.

its a bit dissapointing that the camera only outputs 8 bit, but based on the footage, i dont think the sensor has much more than 8 bits dynamic range anyway, so it wont make a huge difference.

terence.

Actually, it's a CRT, I'm not sure how many bits of color those can display? It's really noticeable on a solid color. I was pointing the camera at my greenscreen and could clearly see where the mix of different shades of green broke down (I only had an overhead bulb on). I actually think this is a good thing, it should make keying easier because you won't have as many colors bleeding together from the HDV compression. Anyways, I will have more time today to start some more in depth testing.

[David Newman]

Originally Posted by Derek Green

Hi David, I understand the camera is only putting out 8bit and the Intensity is only capturing 8bit, but, if I understand you correctly, you're saying if you set NEO HD to capture 1080 4:2:2 8bit, it'll upconvert the 8bit signal to 10bit anyways? Do I understand you correctly on that?

Yes. We compress all YUV data as if it was in the 0 to 1023 range. 8-bit input are multiply by 4 before being compressed.

As a side observation, without the HDV compression masking the picture and seeing the uncompressed monitor picture so clean, it's sure ALOT easier to see the 8bit limitations and color banding from the 8bit signal.

True, noise and compression ringing can hide camera limitation, but now you have to opportunity to control that yourself. If you use AE PRo in 16-bit mode, adding 0.4% noise to your composite, after your grade, will add 1 LSB of 8-bit noise -- great for suppressing banding. This only work with a 16 composite, which required NEO HD or better.

[Fergus Anderson]

David

I have tried to download the neo player but the email with the link has not come through. I have tried it with 3 differenct email addresses now and also checked the junk mail. Could you check to see if its working?

Thanks
Fergus

[Josef Nazdar]

same with my email :(