Better NTSC (60i 24p) or PAL (50i 25p)? at DVinfo.net

Luke Muller · April 12th, 2007, 10:48 AM

I'm planning to buy an HV20 and I have the possibility to buy either NTSC or PAL version because I live across Japan and Europe.

I'm trying to figure out which is better. I spent sometime reading through the forum but I still haven't found an answer. What would you suggest?

I also have some more specific questions...

Does the HD television connected through the HDMI need to be proper standard (NTSC or PAL)? Are HD televisions usually multistandard?

How do you convert the 25p to NTSC? Do you slow it down 4% to get 24p and then add the 2:3 pulldown?

Does the conversion from 60i to 24p decrease the quality of one frame every four (because the 2:3 pulldown) while the conversion from 50i to 25p doesn't?

Fergus Anderson · April 12th, 2007, 12:13 PM

Hi Paul

I started a thread on this topic a while back:

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=86410

Luke Muller · April 12th, 2007, 08:43 PM

Hi Fergus,

Thank you for the link, the other thread answered all my questions.

Did you get a PAL version eventually, or are you still wondering?

Is it actually the PAL selling in Europe? For how much? I have seen in some other thread that there are online shops that have it for 849 EUR.

Here in Tokyo it is now selling for 101,200 JPY in shops (850 USD, 630 EUR).

Moreover they apply 20% discount (even though you need to use the saved money at the same shop) that makes the camera price to go down to 680 USD (500 EUR).

All this is for the NTSC model. I will go to Akihabara later to see if they also have the PAL version.

Fergus Anderson · April 12th, 2007, 11:50 PM

Hi Luke

No Im still waiting! In the UK there is no availability yet. I think the lack of pulldown in the PAL model will make it worth the difference (unless its plagued with the 25p issues that the Sony V1 had)

Japan is so much cheaper than the UK! Cheapest I have seen it here (preordered for) is £740!

Maximilian Friedrich · April 13th, 2007, 12:06 AM

Anyone got a Hv20 Pal within Europe already?
I am also still waiting ... my trader pretend to deliver this week but nothing happend yet :(

Robert Batta · April 13th, 2007, 02:34 AM

Hungaryan Canon says avaible in may :(

Fergus Anderson · April 13th, 2007, 05:14 AM

Yes suppliers here are saying May now also :(

Alastair Brown · April 13th, 2007, 07:06 AM

May!!!!!! Thats rotten news!

Luke Muller · April 13th, 2007, 07:32 AM

Guys, I made a mistake about the prices!

Tonight I check it again and in Tokyo the HV20 is sold at 128,000 JPY (1,080 USD, 780 EUR). Moreover they apply only 5% discount.

I couldn't find any PAL version.

Alastair Brown · April 13th, 2007, 09:06 AM

Thanks for checking Luke

Povl H. Pedersen · April 13th, 2007, 12:22 PM

I have been hoping for a PAL version for my birthday late next week.

I live in Denmark, where the translation of the manual normally takes time, but I hope to pick a version with english docs.

For some time, shipping date has been 10 or 11th of april, now a few sites has 17th of April, and at least 2 sites has moved the ship date up to 30th of april or 1st of May. I have orders laying at 2 online shops.

Price for online resellers has been dropping. Starting around 9500 DKK, now down to 8200 DKK = 1099 Euro.

In Germany price started at 1050 Euro, and is now down to 955 Euro. (List 1300 Euro). But none of the german resellers has any announced date.

Glenn Thomas · April 15th, 2007, 12:11 AM

Same here in Australia.. I placed an order at a store and it was supposed to be delivered a few days ago, but they were sent a HV10 instead. So no idea when.

Luke Muller · April 16th, 2007, 07:32 AM

It seems that I was not actually wrong with the first price I gave to you.

Today I went to the same shop again (in Shinjuku, Tokyo) and - surprise! - the price was dropped from 128,000 to 95,100 yen in just 2 days. A week ago it was 101,200 yen.

I also visited a big competitor few blocks away... same price!

Not clear to me why the price goes up and down like this. The same in all shops.

Is it Canon that decide the price? Does it send email to all shops every morning with a new price? Or maybe there is a clerk that every morning visit the competitors and apply the same price? Maybe a cartel?

Anyway, eventually I got mine (NTSC). I need to use it in a week and the PAL version seems not coming out yet.

April 12th, 2007, 10:48 AM	#1
Luke Muller New Boot Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Tokyo Posts: 8	Better NTSC (60i 24p) or PAL (50i 25p)? I'm planning to buy an HV20 and I have the possibility to buy either NTSC or PAL version because I live across Japan and Europe. I'm trying to figure out which is better. I spent sometime reading through the forum but I still haven't found an answer. What would you suggest? I also have some more specific questions... Does the HD television connected through the HDMI need to be proper standard (NTSC or PAL)? Are HD televisions usually multistandard? How do you convert the 25p to NTSC? Do you slow it down 4% to get 24p and then add the 2:3 pulldown? Does the conversion from 60i to 24p decrease the quality of one frame every four (because the 2:3 pulldown) while the conversion from 50i to 25p doesn't?

April 13th, 2007, 02:34 AM	#6
Robert Batta Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hungary / Europe Posts: 128	Hv20 Eu Hungaryan Canon says avaible in may :( __________________ Robert Batta my stock video portfolio : https://www.pond5.com/artist/skysuta Pond5 – the world’s first web-based stock footage marketplace –

April 13th, 2007, 12:22 PM	#11
Povl H. Pedersen Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Aarhus, Denmark Posts: 28	PAL version I have been hoping for a PAL version for my birthday late next week. I live in Denmark, where the translation of the manual normally takes time, but I hope to pick a version with english docs. For some time, shipping date has been 10 or 11th of april, now a few sites has 17th of April, and at least 2 sites has moved the ship date up to 30th of april or 1st of May. I have orders laying at 2 online shops. Price for online resellers has been dropping. Starting around 9500 DKK, now down to 8200 DKK = 1099 Euro. In Germany price started at 1050 Euro, and is now down to 955 Euro. (List 1300 Euro). But none of the german resellers has any announced date.

April 12th, 2007, 12:13 PM	#2
Fergus Anderson Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, UK Posts: 321	Hi Paul I started a thread on this topic a while back: http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=86410

April 12th, 2007, 08:43 PM	#3
Luke Muller New Boot Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Tokyo Posts: 8	Hi Fergus, Thank you for the link, the other thread answered all my questions. Did you get a PAL version eventually, or are you still wondering? Is it actually the PAL selling in Europe? For how much? I have seen in some other thread that there are online shops that have it for 849 EUR. Here in Tokyo it is now selling for 101,200 JPY in shops (850 USD, 630 EUR). Moreover they apply 20% discount (even though you need to use the saved money at the same shop) that makes the camera price to go down to 680 USD (500 EUR). All this is for the NTSC model. I will go to Akihabara later to see if they also have the PAL version.

April 12th, 2007, 11:50 PM	#4
Fergus Anderson Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, UK Posts: 321	Hi Luke No Im still waiting! In the UK there is no availability yet. I think the lack of pulldown in the PAL model will make it worth the difference (unless its plagued with the 25p issues that the Sony V1 had) Japan is so much cheaper than the UK! Cheapest I have seen it here (preordered for) is £740!

April 13th, 2007, 12:06 AM	#5
Maximilian Friedrich New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Aachen, Germany Posts: 19	Anyone got a Hv20 Pal within Europe already? I am also still waiting ... my trader pretend to deliver this week but nothing happend yet :(

April 13th, 2007, 05:14 AM	#7
Fergus Anderson Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, UK Posts: 321	Yes suppliers here are saying May now also :(

April 13th, 2007, 07:06 AM	#8
Alastair Brown Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow/Scotland Posts: 626	May!!!!!! Thats rotten news!

April 13th, 2007, 07:32 AM	#9
Luke Muller New Boot Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Tokyo Posts: 8	Guys, I made a mistake about the prices! Tonight I check it again and in Tokyo the HV20 is sold at 128,000 JPY (1,080 USD, 780 EUR). Moreover they apply only 5% discount. I couldn't find any PAL version.

April 13th, 2007, 09:06 AM	#10
Alastair Brown Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow/Scotland Posts: 626	Thanks for checking Luke

April 15th, 2007, 12:11 AM	#12
Glenn Thomas Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 320	Same here in Australia.. I placed an order at a store and it was supposed to be delivered a few days ago, but they were sent a HV10 instead. So no idea when.

April 16th, 2007, 07:32 AM	#13
Luke Muller New Boot Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Tokyo Posts: 8	It seems that I was not actually wrong with the first price I gave to you. Today I went to the same shop again (in Shinjuku, Tokyo) and - surprise! - the price was dropped from 128,000 to 95,100 yen in just 2 days. A week ago it was 101,200 yen. I also visited a big competitor few blocks away... same price! Not clear to me why the price goes up and down like this. The same in all shops. Is it Canon that decide the price? Does it send email to all shops every morning with a new price? Or maybe there is a clerk that every morning visit the competitors and apply the same price? Maybe a cartel? Anyway, eventually I got mine (NTSC). I need to use it in a week and the PAL version seems not coming out yet.