Sony User Tries Canon HV20 at DVinfo.net

Chris Barcellos · April 2nd, 2007, 12:00 PM

I am posting this thread not to create controversy, but to give some insight as to what a change in brand might mean to a user unfamiliar with the Canon line.

I've ordered the Canon HV20 as my first Canon. It's due to arrive this week, so I want to give some first reasons for this purchase, and then update you on my choice.

I ordered the HV20 after looking at Sony consumer HDV cams. It was actually prompted by my wife who is probably tired of me lugging my FX1 to all our family affairs. No matter how I tried, I would take the FX1 over my Panosonic GS120 or my VX2000, cause I just wanted opportunity to have HDV. So I load up the aluminum case, tripods, etc, and the SUV is filled up.

I had bought the VX2000 and FX1 over Canon offerings in the past, not so much because I was partial to Sony, but that they seemed like the best offerings at that time. Couple that to the fact that the two used the same batteries, even that my old Digital 8 used, and it seemed like the right progression. And I never had any significant quality or performance issues, and the Sonys were just plain tought. So considering going outside Sony meant a bit of a change to me.

So why choose the HV20 over the HC5 or HC7 ? Price and value. That simple. Value in that the HV20 has more features, including my first chance at working with in camera "24P" if that is what it is. Larger imager too, 3 lux rating, and all at $1,100.00. And I saw some of the images out of the HV10 and HV20, and those were great selling points. Seemed like a no brainer, that I would buy my first Canon.

I am also hoping that this camera might help work with my future 35mm adapter shooting, helping move to a more portable set up. I've seen some 35mm adapter footage from this camera, and it was impressive. While it is more than like a problem I have with my DIY adapter, I can't shake the feeling that there is something in the Sony HDV process that is creating unusual artifacts in the adapter footage I have done thus far. I am hoping that something in the Canon processing might be different, but we shall see.

So there it is, my first Canon is coming, and I will let all know how it works out for me....

David Rice · April 2nd, 2007, 03:10 PM

I wish I had waited and bought the Canon Hv20, or even the Hv10. I bought a Sony HC3 six months ago. It worked for about two months. Then shut down. I sent it to the Sony Repair Center in Lorado Texas. They informed me that the Camera had corrosion, and Sony has a policy, that if a camera is found with corrosion, they will not honor their warranty. (Which is for only 90 days!).

Sony can not tell me where the corrosion came from, or what may have caused it. (We have never had a corrosion problem before with Sony or Canon products in 15 years).

When I received the Sony HC3 back from the Sony Repair Center there was a unsigned, and undated work order enclosed. Out of curiosity believing that the camera was corroded, we opened the HC3 up. Guess what? No signs of corrosion. All the parts looked shiny and new. We even inspected the inside of the camera with a magnifying glass. There is no corrosion.

That HC3 will be my last Sony Product.

Dave Rice

Ken Ross · April 2nd, 2007, 06:56 PM

Chris, I can tell you the single biggest difference between the Canon picture and the Sony picture is the lack of artifacts. This has always bugged me about Sony's approach to video. Their objective is to produce a punchy, overly sharp image. That's great, but artifacts are the by-product of that approach. Obviously the vast majority of consumers simply don't care or don't see these artifacts. But I believe the more trained your eye, the more you see it and are bothered by it. I even see this approach with my Sony FX7.

Viewing the Canon video image was the same feeling I got after owning many Sony digital still cameras and then going to a Canon digital still. It was cleaner, truer and more artifact-free. It was almost totally devoid of the edge enhancement I have so grown to hate.

Salah Baker · April 2nd, 2007, 07:04 PM

"edge enhancement"
IE Digital Filter of some kind (sharpen,sharpen edges,Unsharp Mask....home made)
Even really expensive Video cameras have these stoooooopid options...

John McManimie · April 2nd, 2007, 07:20 PM

I have owned both Canon and Sony camcorders. Both companies make great products in my opinion; each usually has advantages in some areas over the other. I have always preferred the color from Canon but I must say that one thing I have found with Sony products is that they are built like tanks --- very durable. I don't see an edge enhancement issue but I rarely shoot on auto and I tend to turn down sharpening anyway (I tend to prefer high definition but only moderate acutance). I can't understand people getting stuck on one brand, though --- When I'm ready to purchase, I'll switch to any brand that I think offers the best product I can afford.

Leila Alkadi · April 2nd, 2007, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

So why choose the HV20 over the HC5 or HC7 ? Price and value.

Even if the HV20 cost $200 more than the HC7, I will still
pick the HV20.

In fact, I still have both the HC7 and HV20 sitting on my
desk right now. The HC7 is beautifully crafted,whil the
HV20 is more toy-like. However, the HV20 beats the HC7
in picture quality.

Salah Baker · April 2nd, 2007, 07:33 PM

The HV 20 is Canon Thumbing its nose at the industry it’s testing, think you are about to see most if not all Canons sport a Canon in house Cmos

Art Willig · April 2nd, 2007, 08:11 PM

It sounds as if you're giving birth...
I've found Canons extremely fragile, myself.
Good luck with your newest "arrival"

Ken Ross · April 2nd, 2007, 08:31 PM

Although the small Sonys don't 'feel' fragile, I've had several malfunction at an early age. I don't always find a correlation between how a camera 'feels' and it's internal parts quality or longevity. On the other hand my Sony VX2000 is built very well....far better than the small Sonys I've owned.

Chris Barcellos · April 2nd, 2007, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Willig

It sounds as if you're giving birth...
I've found Canons extremely fragile, myself.
Good luck with your newest "arrival"

Yeah, that was my impression when I was looking at VX2000 v. GL1. Tape drives don't seem to be an issue in Sony's. Seems like Canon owners are always waiting for that shoe to drop... Thats why I am becoming initiated to Canon with an $1,100 camera, rather than the A-1 at $ 4K. We shall see, and I am going into this with an open mind.

Paulo Teixeira · April 2nd, 2007, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

Yeah, that was my impression when I was looking at VX2000 v. GL1. Tape drives don't seem to be an issue in Sony's. Seems like Canon owners are always waiting for that shoe to drop... Thats why I am becoming initiated to Canon with an $1,100 camera, rather than the A-1 at $ 4K. We shall see, and I am going into this with an open mind.

It’s a bit cheaper now
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

John Godden · April 2nd, 2007, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

I am posting this thread not to create controversy, but to give some insight as to what a change in brand might mean to a user unfamiliar with the Canon line.

I've ordered the Canon HV20 as my first Canon. It's due to arrive this week, so I want to give some first reasons for this purchase, and then update you on my choice.

I ordered the HV20 after looking at Sony consumer HDV cams. It was actually prompted by my wife who is probably tired of me lugging my FX1 to all our family affairs. No matter how I tried, I would take the FX1 over my Panosonic GS120 or my VX2000, cause I just wanted opportunity to have HDV. So I load up the aluminum case, tripods, etc, and the SUV is filled up.

I had bought the VX2000 and FX1 over Canon offerings in the past, not so much because I was partial to Sony, but that they seemed like the best offerings at that time. Couple that to the fact that the two used the same batteries, even that my old Digital 8 used, and it seemed like the right progression. And I never had any significant quality or performance issues, and the Sonys were just plain tought. So considering going outside Sony meant a bit of a change to me.

So why choose the HV20 over the HC5 or HC7 ? Price and value. That simple. Value in that the HV20 has more features, including my first chance at working with in camera "24P" if that is what it is. Larger imager too, 3 lux rating, and all at $1,100.00. And I saw some of the images out of the HV10 and HV20, and those were great selling points. Seemed like a no brainer, that I would buy my first Canon.

I am also hoping that this camera might help work with my future 35mm adapter shooting, helping move to a more portable set up. I've seen some 35mm adapter footage from this camera, and it was impressive. While it is more than like a problem I have with my DIY adapter, I can't shake the feeling that there is something in the Sony HDV process that is creating unusual artifacts in the adapter footage I have done thus far. I am hoping that something in the Canon processing might be different, but we shall see.

So there it is, my first Canon is coming, and I will let all know how it works out for me....

Hi Chris

Looking forward to reading your comments.

See my sig: My little DV Sony is a very nice camera and "feels" GREAT as a fast handling handheld. However, I will say the Sony LCD touch-screen REALLLLLY sucks. Also, the factory warranty on Sonys is an absolute JOKE!!!! The LCD 'broke/died' on my HC90 and I got it repaired by Mack. :-). The batteries on the Sony are also a nightmare. I bought two Sony batteries and one outright never worked and the other is very anemic.

Really liking the HV20 so far. The ONLY negative I can say about the HV20 so far is that it doesn't feel so good in the hand. There is a slight (OK, not so slight) awkward feel to the camera. I think the camcorderinfo review mentioned something similar. OK, the second beef is that Canon hasn't delivered any WD-H43's (wide adapter) to the states yet. :-(

Regards
JohnG

Chris Barcellos · April 2nd, 2007, 09:21 PM

Now the wait. Camera arrives Wednesday. To fill up my time, I sprang for a Letus 35mm Adapter and a Nikon 50mm 1.4 today. Hoping that will improve output on the 35mm adapter process over my self built. I had already ordered adapters to step up to the 72 achromat.

So I should be able to run some decent 35mm adapter footage too... And compare that to what I get out of my FX1.

Has anybody figured out if you can flip the screen on the HV20 with the magnet trick ?

Enea Lanzarone · April 3rd, 2007, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

To fill up my time, I sprang for a Letus 35mm Adapter and a Nikon 50mm 1.4 today. Hoping that will improve output on the 35mm adapter process over my self built. I had already ordered adapters to step up to the 72 achromat.

Hi Chris

As I will go for the same "package" (a HV20 and a Letus35A), I'm very interested in seeing your results. I'd be very thankful for any footage you could provide.

From your question about the lcd flipping possibility of the HV20, I suppose you went for the Letus35 non flip version (the Letus35A), right? Are you planning to use it with the 72mm achromat from your FX1?

Chris Barcellos · April 3rd, 2007, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enea Lanzarone

Hi Chris

Are you planning to use it with the 72mm achromat from your FX1?

Actually I think the Letus has its own 72mm achromat, but if I can interchange, I will also try that.

April 2nd, 2007, 12:00 PM	#1
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Sony User Tries Canon HV20 I am posting this thread not to create controversy, but to give some insight as to what a change in brand might mean to a user unfamiliar with the Canon line. I've ordered the Canon HV20 as my first Canon. It's due to arrive this week, so I want to give some first reasons for this purchase, and then update you on my choice. I ordered the HV20 after looking at Sony consumer HDV cams. It was actually prompted by my wife who is probably tired of me lugging my FX1 to all our family affairs. No matter how I tried, I would take the FX1 over my Panosonic GS120 or my VX2000, cause I just wanted opportunity to have HDV. So I load up the aluminum case, tripods, etc, and the SUV is filled up. I had bought the VX2000 and FX1 over Canon offerings in the past, not so much because I was partial to Sony, but that they seemed like the best offerings at that time. Couple that to the fact that the two used the same batteries, even that my old Digital 8 used, and it seemed like the right progression. And I never had any significant quality or performance issues, and the Sonys were just plain tought. So considering going outside Sony meant a bit of a change to me. So why choose the HV20 over the HC5 or HC7 ? Price and value. That simple. Value in that the HV20 has more features, including my first chance at working with in camera "24P" if that is what it is. Larger imager too, 3 lux rating, and all at $1,100.00. And I saw some of the images out of the HV10 and HV20, and those were great selling points. Seemed like a no brainer, that I would buy my first Canon. I am also hoping that this camera might help work with my future 35mm adapter shooting, helping move to a more portable set up. I've seen some 35mm adapter footage from this camera, and it was impressive. While it is more than like a problem I have with my DIY adapter, I can't shake the feeling that there is something in the Sony HDV process that is creating unusual artifacts in the adapter footage I have done thus far. I am hoping that something in the Canon processing might be different, but we shall see. So there it is, my first Canon is coming, and I will let all know how it works out for me.... __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

April 2nd, 2007, 03:10 PM	#2
David Rice Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sitka Alaska Posts: 470	Sony vs Canon I wish I had waited and bought the Canon Hv20, or even the Hv10. I bought a Sony HC3 six months ago. It worked for about two months. Then shut down. I sent it to the Sony Repair Center in Lorado Texas. They informed me that the Camera had corrosion, and Sony has a policy, that if a camera is found with corrosion, they will not honor their warranty. (Which is for only 90 days!). Sony can not tell me where the corrosion came from, or what may have caused it. (We have never had a corrosion problem before with Sony or Canon products in 15 years). When I received the Sony HC3 back from the Sony Repair Center there was a unsigned, and undated work order enclosed. Out of curiosity believing that the camera was corroded, we opened the HC3 up. Guess what? No signs of corrosion. All the parts looked shiny and new. We even inspected the inside of the camera with a magnifying glass. There is no corrosion. That HC3 will be my last Sony Product. Dave Rice

April 2nd, 2007, 08:11 PM	#8
Art Willig Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 104	It sounds as if you're giving birth... I've found Canons extremely fragile, myself. Good luck with your newest "arrival" __________________ "Shoot first and ask questions later"

April 2nd, 2007, 09:21 PM	#13
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Killing time. Now the wait. Camera arrives Wednesday. To fill up my time, I sprang for a Letus 35mm Adapter and a Nikon 50mm 1.4 today. Hoping that will improve output on the 35mm adapter process over my self built. I had already ordered adapters to step up to the 72 achromat. So I should be able to run some decent 35mm adapter footage too... And compare that to what I get out of my FX1. Has anybody figured out if you can flip the screen on the HV20 with the magnet trick ? __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

April 2nd, 2007, 06:56 PM	#3
Ken Ross Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,945	Chris, I can tell you the single biggest difference between the Canon picture and the Sony picture is the lack of artifacts. This has always bugged me about Sony's approach to video. Their objective is to produce a punchy, overly sharp image. That's great, but artifacts are the by-product of that approach. Obviously the vast majority of consumers simply don't care or don't see these artifacts. But I believe the more trained your eye, the more you see it and are bothered by it. I even see this approach with my Sony FX7. Viewing the Canon video image was the same feeling I got after owning many Sony digital still cameras and then going to a Canon digital still. It was cleaner, truer and more artifact-free. It was almost totally devoid of the edge enhancement I have so grown to hate.

April 2nd, 2007, 07:04 PM	#4
Salah Baker Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Patterson La. Posts: 207	"edge enhancement" IE Digital Filter of some kind (sharpen,sharpen edges,Unsharp Mask....home made) Even really expensive Video cameras have these stoooooopid options...

April 2nd, 2007, 07:20 PM	#5
John McManimie Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 314	I have owned both Canon and Sony camcorders. Both companies make great products in my opinion; each usually has advantages in some areas over the other. I have always preferred the color from Canon but I must say that one thing I have found with Sony products is that they are built like tanks --- very durable. I don't see an edge enhancement issue but I rarely shoot on auto and I tend to turn down sharpening anyway (I tend to prefer high definition but only moderate acutance). I can't understand people getting stuck on one brand, though --- When I'm ready to purchase, I'll switch to any brand that I think offers the best product I can afford.

April 2nd, 2007, 07:33 PM	#7
Salah Baker Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Patterson La. Posts: 207	The HV 20 is Canon Thumbing its nose at the industry it’s testing, think you are about to see most if not all Canons sport a Canon in house Cmos

April 2nd, 2007, 08:31 PM	#9
Ken Ross Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,945	Although the small Sonys don't 'feel' fragile, I've had several malfunction at an early age. I don't always find a correlation between how a camera 'feels' and it's internal parts quality or longevity. On the other hand my Sony VX2000 is built very well....far better than the small Sonys I've owned.