Sony User Tries Canon HV20

[Robert Ducon]

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

My next few shoots will be going back to the FX1 with the Letus to see what differences are...

Chris,

In regards to HDV, I 'grew up' on the Z1U/FX1, thought I don't own one now I still could use one if I want/need. I do own an HV20 and have immersed myself in it as well, and have grown to trust and really like it.

I'd really like to hear what your thoughts are going back to the FX1 now after having have used the HV20 for the last 3 months! Keep us posted please.

[Steve Jones]

Hi Chris and everyone, thanks for a great thread I think you have convinced me to get one of these beauties (the hv20 I mean).

Chris I was really touched by your 48hr film. I'm sure a lot of people the world over will feel their heart strings being tugged somewhat.

Best,

Steve.

[Chris Barcellos]

John Stantley:

I've used my Sony 1.7 Teleconvertor and my Kenko .7 wide with 58 mm mounts on the HV20 with appropriate step up rings. They weren't really designed for HD, but seem to do reasonably well.

I know what you mean about the Canon image, it has a bit different emphasis, but then I think you can adjust the Sony to meet that. Canon seems to set their cameras a bit softer in sharpness and detail, giving it a different look. This will probably set off an argument, but I think there image is warmer than Sony.

As far as playing the FX1 tapes on the Canon, I haven't tried it yet, but others have indicated it works fine. I have taken the Canon tapes through the Sony.... a couple of times.

Robert Ducon:

I will keep you posted. One thing I have figured out is how to shoot the FX1 upside down with the ease I can do it with the HV20. Score 1 for the Canon on that level.


Steve Jones: Thanks for the kind words about the film. I will pass it on to all involved.

[John Stanley]

Thanks Chris.

I saw in one of the threads that the tapes play back fine between the two different cameras.

Keep us posted on your progress with the Canon. I'm going to try to find one locally so I can actually hold one. This thread has whetted my appetite for the HV20.

- John

[Chris Barcellos]

John:

Won't impress you much just holding it.... Build isn't spectacular, and it has a bit of a rattle to it when it isn't on-- OIS unit, I think...

[Ian G. Thompson]

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

... it has a bit of a rattle to it when it isn't on-- OIS unit, I think...

That's exactly what it is....

[Graham Baker]

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

John Stantley:

I know what you mean about the Canon image, it has a bit different emphasis, but then I think you can adjust the Sony to meet that. Canon seems to set their cameras a bit softer in sharpness and detail, giving it a different look.

I think that sums it up nicely.
I have a Sony HC3 - I see annoying black outlines around all objects - an image sharpening 'feature' that does not exist on my HV20.

To me the HV20 PQ is streets ahead of the Sony HC3

[Mikko Lopponen]

Originally Posted by Graham Baker

I think that sums it up nicely.
I have a Sony HC3 - I see annoying black outlines around all objects - an image sharpening 'feature' that does not exist on my HV20.

To me the HV20 PQ is streets ahead of the Sony HC3

The hc3 is famous for those. No black outlines with the hc1 either.

[Graham Baker]

Originally Posted by Mikko Lopponen

The hc3 is famous for those. No black outlines with the hc1 either.

Yes you are correct - the HC1 was a brilliant camera, too good for Sony to keep it available for the price!
I am quite annoyed with myself for not getting one when I could have.
Still, the HV20 is the next best thing and it also has a few things the HC1 does not have - optical stabiliser and HDMI :-)

[Chris Barcellos]

Since this thread got woke up, I will comment on most recent status. I am still working with the HV20 Letus35a combo. Bolted together, the two work alright together, except that you can quite get the zoom you need to eliminate vignetting at higher FStops. So I married the two with a Cinevate achromat, that, in combo with the Letus Achromat, get you plenty of zoom capability. The results appear to be a lot better, though I had thought the extra glass would make it worse. I should try just an extension tube to see if it works.

I have gone to Cineform Neo HDV to handle pull down, and it is great. But, I have also found that shooting my FX1 a capturing with Cineform with pull down also results in an interesting 24fps file. The results look very close to the HV20 24p file... Has anybody tried this ?

[Michael Jouravlev]

I think after using this camera for half a year you learned its tricks, but just in case...

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

5. Exposure controls: At first, the exposure controls with joy stick were confusing, as to be expected. But I finally got it down pretty well, and assuming I want to have my shutter as priority, I have learned to set it at the speed I want it, and adjust from there with the "exposure" adjustment with the "joy stick". While the read out does not explain what is happening, I assume that by adjusting exposure in shutter priority mode you are adjusting aperature, maybe neutral density filtering, and gain.

Yep, this is exactly how it works. You can check current shutter/aperture (in real f-stops, not in relative EV steps) by pressing Photo button halfway. You will need mini-SD card inserted for this to work.

Cinemode works differently depending on 60i or 24psf.

In short, 60i + Cinemode is basically an automatic mode with Cine gamma. When you lock exposure and start adjusting it, the camera can easily change either shutter speed or aperture to its liking. There is little use of Cinemode in 60i.

24psf + Cinemode is more usable. Camera tries to stay at 1/48s and wider than f/8.0. If you need less exposure, than camera stays at f/8.0 and ramps up shutter speed up to 1/500s, after this it starts increasing aperture again. On the dark side, if the iris is fully open -- which can be anywhere from f/3.0 to f/1.8 depending on current zoom -- it starts decreasing shutter speed. It seems that after it slows down to 1/24s, it starts elevating gain.

[Will Schryver]

This has been a very interesting thread for me. I currently own an XH-A1 and a GL2, but I'm seriously considering selling my GL2 and getting an HV20. For one, I need a camera whose footage is going to better match the 24f from the A1, and I would like a camera to put on the top of a Glidecam. Putting the A1 on a Glidecam seems just about impossible, unless I start doing steroids and pump up my arms to carry the thing.

I have a couple questions that haven't been addressed on the thread:

1. I have read somewhere that pulldown is 3:2:0 in 24p mode on the HV20. Is this true, and if so, how will this effect my editing (using Vegas 7.0) when I'm mixing 3:2:0 footage from the HV20 with the 4:2:0 stuff from the A1?

2. Has anyone used the HV20 on a Glidecam or similar stablizer? What's it like in 24p mode?

[Chris Barcellos]

Cineform Applies a 3:2 pulldown the same as it does with the Sony V1Uand HV20 is specifically listed by Cineform as appropriate. I use it and it seems to do just fine.

[John M. Graham]

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

But, I have also found that shooting my FX1 a capturing with Cineform with pull down also results in an interesting 24fps file. The results look very close to the HV20 24p file... Has anybody tried this ?

Chris, I am very curious on what that looks like. Are you shooting 60i (no Cineframe 30 or 24) and then capturing it in Cineform? Any more details you could provide would be awesome...