HV20 PF24 mode pulldown removal at DVinfo.net

Alan Dunkel · March 29th, 2007, 08:28 AM

I used MPEG Streamclip to remove pulldown, I'll share the settings. Any suggestions for better settings or general tested alternatives would be useful for anyone using PF24, please post the details. I have an Intel Mac Mini, but MPEG Streamclip is available for Mac PPC/Windows too and they also cover other requirements like the $20 Apple MPEG codec for Quicktime and the free DVHSCap on their pages much better than I can.

On a Mac I used DVHSCap to bring the footage into the computer over firewire and then opened that file in MPEG Streamclip. It does some scaling/encoding, but I could read a license plate several blocks away and would say Streamclip does it very well. I also tried saving to HDTV 720P that worked well and to 1440 unscaled which comes out in 4:3 squished.

1. In Steamclip do a File | Export to Quicktime.
2. Try these settings:
Compression: Apple Intermediate Codec
Quality: 100%
Frame Size: 1920 X1080 (16:9)
Frame Rate: 23.976
Deselect for Progressive Movies: Uncheck the boxes under this section

Thanks, Alan

Alan Dunkel · March 29th, 2007, 08:49 AM

...from Streamclip and depends on settings, that is why I tried the HDTV 1440 as it doesn't scale. Also, I don't think DVHSCap is available for Windows, but everything else is and somebody could post an alternative as there are all kinds of HDV capture software for Windows and some are bound to work well for this. My understanding is that if you have FCP, I don't, you wouldn't need to buy the $20 MPEG codec for Quicktime as Apple bundled it.
Thanks, Alan

Toenis Liivamaegi · March 29th, 2007, 09:42 AM

There is CapDVHS for Windows.

T

Hugh Walton · March 29th, 2007, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Dunkel

I used MPEG Streamclip to remove pulldown, I'll share the settings. Any suggestions for better settings or general tested alternatives would be useful for anyone using PF24, please post the details. I have an Intel Mac Mini, but MPEG Streamclip is available for Mac PPC/Windows too and they also cover other requirements like the $20 Apple MPEG codec for Quicktime and the free DVHSCap on their pages much better than I can.

On a Mac I used DVHSCap to bring the footage into the computer over firewire and then opened that file in MPEG Streamclip. It does some scaling/encoding, but I could read a license plate several blocks away and would say Streamclip does it very well. I also tried saving to HDTV 720P that worked well and to 1440 unscaled which comes out in 4:3 squished.

1. In Steamclip do a File | Export to Quicktime.
2. Try these settings:
Compression: Apple Intermediate Codec
Quality: 100%
Frame Size: 1920 X1080 (16:9)
Frame Rate: 23.976
Deselect for Progressive Movies: Uncheck the boxes under this section

Thanks, Alan

Where can I download DVHSCap from. I have searched for it, but have found nothing to download. Can someone help me.

Thanks, Hugh

Alan Dunkel · March 29th, 2007, 07:34 PM

Toenis, Thanks, that info should be useful to the Windows folks wanting to use PF24 now without a huge software investment.

Huge, Look on this page from Squared 5, it is a page about MPEG Streamclip, but a little over half way down there is a link to download the Apple develpment kit that contains DVHSCap. The page also has info on the MPEG codec for Quicktime which is needed for either Mac or Windows, unless it is already on your system from FCP Studio I think.

http://www.squared5.com/svideo/mpeg-streamclip-mac.html

Regards, Alan

Paul Martin · March 30th, 2007, 12:26 AM

Alan,

I was surprised to hear that you were able to remove the pulldown from 24p HV20 clips just using MPEG Streamclip. I tried your method on my g4 powerbook using several m2t's I'd downloaded from this site and it didn't work for me. I wish it had, as it would mean pulldown removal on my current machine would be painless. Perhaps there is a difference in the functionality of MPEG Streamclip on Intel Macs vs. PowerPC Macs. Nevertheless, I am using MPEG Streamclip v1.8. Are you quite certain that your method yields pure progressive 24p clips with no interlaced frames? Would you mind trying to remove the pulldown from one of John Chu's excellent 24p HV20 clips in this thread:

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=89954&page=2

Such as:

http://www.filefactory.com/file/c31f23

Thanks for the help!

Alan Dunkel · March 30th, 2007, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Martin

Alan,

I was surprised to hear that you were able to remove the pulldown from 24p HV20 clips just using MPEG Streamclip. I tried your method on my g4 powerbook using several m2t's I'd downloaded from this site and it didn't work for me. I wish it had, as it would mean pulldown removal on my current machine would be painless. Perhaps there is a difference in the functionality of MPEG Streamclip on Intel Macs vs. PowerPC Macs. Nevertheless, I am using MPEG Streamclip v1.8. Are you quite certain that your method yields pure progressive 24p clips with no interlaced frames? Would you mind trying to remove the pulldown from one of John Chu's excellent 24p HV20 clips in this thread:

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=89954&page=2

Such as:

http://www.filefactory.com/file/c31f23

Thanks for the help!

Paul, No I'm not certain. I only have iMovie and it doesn't have a 24P timeline option, so I have to cave in and get FCP Express or fire up my old PC with After Effects. I do know that MPEG Streamclip can handle most pulldown correctly, but on the HV20 might not. I'll try one of those clips if I get a chance and it is short. Do you know what settings you used?
Regards, Alan

Paul Martin · March 30th, 2007, 12:46 AM

Alan,

Thanks for the reply. I used the exact settings from your first post. It shouldn't be necessary to open iMovie in order to watch the AIC .mov that is created by MPEG Streamclip. Watch your newly created clip with Quicktime Player and if you don't see any interlacing then pulldown removal was successful.

Thanks!

Hugh Walton · March 30th, 2007, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Dunkel

Toenis, Thanks, that info should be useful to the Windows folks wanting to use PF24 now without a huge software investment.

Huge, Look on this page from Squared 5, it is a page about MPEG Streamclip, but a little over half way down there is a link to download the Apple develpment kit that contains DVHSCap. The page also has info on the MPEG codec for Quicktime which is needed for either Mac or Windows, unless it is already on your system from FCP Studio I think.

http://www.squared5.com/svideo/mpeg-streamclip-mac.html

Regards, Alan

Thanks for the link. A few last questions. Is this the correct Development Kit, and does this allow me to capture straight to Mpegstream Clip? How exactly does it work?

"FireWire SDK 20 for Mac OS X (DMG) 10.7 MB, 2005-06-06

The FireWire SDK for Mac OS X provides developers with useful tools, example projects, documentation, and debug components. It also contains source-code for most of the FireWire stack from OS X Tiger, version 10.4.0 and Panther version 10.3.9.

FireWire SDK 20 contains a number of new and updated tools including FireBug, FireCracker, PhyTool, FWBusyBus, FWPlugOMatic, and AVCBrowser. It also contains source for a new AV/C DV & MPEG2 streaming framework called AVCVideoServices, and example projects which use this new framework, including an updated version of VirtualDVHS."

Thanks again, Hugh

Alan Dunkel · March 30th, 2007, 07:36 AM

Huge, I used the link in this sentence of their page. I think you have the right one, but am not sure. After I installed and copied DVHSCap to my Applications folder.
"....or click this direct download link from Apple: FireWire SDK 20. Install the package and you will find DVHSCap and VirtualDVHS in /Developer/FireWireSDK20/Applications/."

Paul, What MPEC Streamclip settings are you using prior to Cinema Tools? I think you may be correct unfortunately, I'll try to upload the converted file for you, but it doesn't look right to me. The download I got fine, but the upload to filefactory didn't show up. I have After Effects for Windows and believe I can use that, but was hoping there was a way a more general audience could afford. Maybe somebody else can come up with something workable and simple instructions. I really like the PF24 mode, so I'll get whatever software I need to use it myself. What is the minimal software to get Cinema Tools, FCE, FCP or Studio if you know?

Thanks, Alan

Hal Snook · March 30th, 2007, 08:30 AM

Okay, I'll admit to only skimming this thread, but MPEG Streamclip doesn't actually remove pulldown, does it? I can't find that option anywhere.

I think simply changing the framerate just does some sort of interpolation.

Alan Dunkel · March 30th, 2007, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hal Snook

Okay, I'll admit to only skimming this thread, but MPEG Streamclip doesn't actually remove pulldown, does it? I can't find that option anywhere.

I think simply changing the framerate just does some sort of interpolation.

Hal, It supports pulldown since version 1.7 in some fasion, but as was said earlier I don't believe it is working for the pulldown the HV20 uses. It is still useful for converting the clips to Quicktime and other formats in very high quality. I have used a product from dvfilm.com in the past that removes some types of pulldown, I may check that out, but I'll likely end up using After Effects myself as I have it for the PC.

This is one mention of pulldown for Streamclip, exactly what it means I can say for an HV20, not much currently, but Streamclip looks like a great product overall and maybe they'll add HV20 support down the road:
* added full support for 23.976 fps streams with 3:2 pulldown

Any input on ways to remove HV20 pulldown would be great.

Regards, Alan

Alan Dunkel · March 30th, 2007, 07:02 PM

..from what I was told this morning. The OSX beta doesn't have the reverse pulldown feature yet, but it should by release from my understanding. The Windows Cineform products have done 24P removal from 60i for a while and stay pretty current with new cameras, so if it doesn't handle the HV20 version, I'm hoping they'll support it shortly. I've been a Cineform fan since Dust to Glory came out and have just been waiting for it to become cross platform. Cineform should work fantasticly ( is that a word? ) for HDMI capture from the HV20 once the intensity drivers are updated and Cineform support is there. I guess for short term I'll use After Effects on the PC.
Regards, Alan

Ken Ross · March 30th, 2007, 08:11 PM

Hal, you're not related to Stover are you?

C.S. Michael · March 30th, 2007, 08:13 PM

Any way to extract 24p in Premiere without shelling out an additional $500 for Cineform?

Anyone know how Premiere Pro CS3 will fare with HV20 HDV?

March 29th, 2007, 08:28 AM	#1
Alan Dunkel Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 59	HV20 PF24 mode pulldown removal I used MPEG Streamclip to remove pulldown, I'll share the settings. Any suggestions for better settings or general tested alternatives would be useful for anyone using PF24, please post the details. I have an Intel Mac Mini, but MPEG Streamclip is available for Mac PPC/Windows too and they also cover other requirements like the $20 Apple MPEG codec for Quicktime and the free DVHSCap on their pages much better than I can. On a Mac I used DVHSCap to bring the footage into the computer over firewire and then opened that file in MPEG Streamclip. It does some scaling/encoding, but I could read a license plate several blocks away and would say Streamclip does it very well. I also tried saving to HDTV 720P that worked well and to 1440 unscaled which comes out in 4:3 squished. 1. In Steamclip do a File \| Export to Quicktime. 2. Try these settings: Compression: Apple Intermediate Codec Quality: 100% Frame Size: 1920 X1080 (16:9) Frame Rate: 23.976 Deselect for Progressive Movies: Uncheck the boxes under this section Thanks, Alan

March 29th, 2007, 08:49 AM	#2
Alan Dunkel Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 59	As an FYI the scaling/encoding is on the export.. ...from Streamclip and depends on settings, that is why I tried the HDTV 1440 as it doesn't scale. Also, I don't think DVHSCap is available for Windows, but everything else is and somebody could post an alternative as there are all kinds of HDV capture software for Windows and some are bound to work well for this. My understanding is that if you have FCP, I don't, you wouldn't need to buy the $20 MPEG codec for Quicktime as Apple bundled it. Thanks, Alan

March 29th, 2007, 07:34 PM	#5
Alan Dunkel Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 59	Thanks and DVHSCap Toenis, Thanks, that info should be useful to the Windows folks wanting to use PF24 now without a huge software investment. Huge, Look on this page from Squared 5, it is a page about MPEG Streamclip, but a little over half way down there is a link to download the Apple develpment kit that contains DVHSCap. The page also has info on the MPEG codec for Quicktime which is needed for either Mac or Windows, unless it is already on your system from FCP Studio I think. http://www.squared5.com/svideo/mpeg-streamclip-mac.html Regards, Alan

March 30th, 2007, 07:36 AM	#10
Alan Dunkel Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 59	I think Paul may be correct and here is more info for you Huge Huge, I used the link in this sentence of their page. I think you have the right one, but am not sure. After I installed and copied DVHSCap to my Applications folder. "....or click this direct download link from Apple: FireWire SDK 20. Install the package and you will find DVHSCap and VirtualDVHS in /Developer/FireWireSDK20/Applications/." Paul, What MPEC Streamclip settings are you using prior to Cinema Tools? I think you may be correct unfortunately, I'll try to upload the converted file for you, but it doesn't look right to me. The download I got fine, but the upload to filefactory didn't show up. I have After Effects for Windows and believe I can use that, but was hoping there was a way a more general audience could afford. Maybe somebody else can come up with something workable and simple instructions. I really like the PF24 mode, so I'll get whatever software I need to use it myself. What is the minimal software to get Cinema Tools, FCE, FCP or Studio if you know? Thanks, Alan Last edited by Alan Dunkel; March 30th, 2007 at 08:55 AM.

March 30th, 2007, 07:02 PM	#13
Alan Dunkel Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 59	Cineform is getting their HV20 soon... ..from what I was told this morning. The OSX beta doesn't have the reverse pulldown feature yet, but it should by release from my understanding. The Windows Cineform products have done 24P removal from 60i for a while and stay pretty current with new cameras, so if it doesn't handle the HV20 version, I'm hoping they'll support it shortly. I've been a Cineform fan since Dust to Glory came out and have just been waiting for it to become cross platform. Cineform should work fantasticly ( is that a word? ) for HDMI capture from the HV20 once the intensity drivers are updated and Cineform support is there. I guess for short term I'll use After Effects on the PC. Regards, Alan

March 29th, 2007, 09:42 AM	#3
Toenis Liivamaegi Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tartu, Estonia Posts: 579	There is CapDVHS for Windows. T

March 30th, 2007, 12:26 AM	#6
Paul Martin Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 47	Alan, I was surprised to hear that you were able to remove the pulldown from 24p HV20 clips just using MPEG Streamclip. I tried your method on my g4 powerbook using several m2t's I'd downloaded from this site and it didn't work for me. I wish it had, as it would mean pulldown removal on my current machine would be painless. Perhaps there is a difference in the functionality of MPEG Streamclip on Intel Macs vs. PowerPC Macs. Nevertheless, I am using MPEG Streamclip v1.8. Are you quite certain that your method yields pure progressive 24p clips with no interlaced frames? Would you mind trying to remove the pulldown from one of John Chu's excellent 24p HV20 clips in this thread: http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=89954&page=2 Such as: http://www.filefactory.com/file/c31f23 Thanks for the help!

March 30th, 2007, 12:46 AM	#8
Paul Martin Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 47	Alan, Thanks for the reply. I used the exact settings from your first post. It shouldn't be necessary to open iMovie in order to watch the AIC .mov that is created by MPEG Streamclip. Watch your newly created clip with Quicktime Player and if you don't see any interlacing then pulldown removal was successful. Thanks!

March 30th, 2007, 08:30 AM	#11
Hal Snook Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: New York, NY Posts: 41	Okay, I'll admit to only skimming this thread, but MPEG Streamclip doesn't actually remove pulldown, does it? I can't find that option anywhere. I think simply changing the framerate just does some sort of interpolation.

March 30th, 2007, 08:11 PM	#14
Ken Ross Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,945	Hal, you're not related to Stover are you?

March 30th, 2007, 08:13 PM	#15
C.S. Michael Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 197	Any way to extract 24p in Premiere without shelling out an additional $500 for Cineform? Anyone know how Premiere Pro CS3 will fare with HV20 HDV?