Cine mode settings?

Luis A. Diaz · March 26th, 2007, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Where have you been, Luis? I first wrote about that long ago, way back on January 31:

http://www.hdvinfo.net/articles/canon/hv20overview.php

"There's a Cine color mode available as well, which can be used with or without 24p. It's actually based on one of the Custom Presets included with the Canon XH A1 and G1 camcorders, number 8 (Cine.V.) The parameters of that preset are Gamma: Cine 1, Knee: Low, Black: Stretch, Sharpness: -4, Color Matrix: Cine 1, Color Gain: -20, Color Phase: +5, Red-Blue: -5, Green-Red: -5, Blue-Red: +5, and Red-Green: +12. When the HV20 begins shipping in April, it'll be interesting to see how this Cine color option matches up with Custom Preset 8 from an XH A1."

Aha!! Now, I knew I 've seen this some place before, Thank You for reminding me.

Luis

Wes Vasher · March 27th, 2007, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fergus Anderson

I think there is a loss of definition with the cine preset - I think I am more inclined to shoot without it and use magic bullet et al in post

Is information being thrown away or is it simply the in camera sharpening being turned down?

Alan Dunkel · March 27th, 2007, 07:58 AM

Chris, I think the Cine mode looks absolutely fantastic when combined with the 24P setting. Any idea if the Cine mode is setting the shutter at 48 or some other fixed value?
Regards, Alan

Ken Ross · March 27th, 2007, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis A. Diaz

I was surprised for CamcorderInfo very unbiassed report and good explanation of the workings of the camera and 24p. Very different from what they reported on the HV-10. Click the PERFORMANCE tab.

Just posted today, here is the link:http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...der-Review.htm

Thanks
Luis

I agree Luis, this was a much fairer report than the one they gave on the HV10. I still would never buy or not buy a camera based soley on their reviews, but they seem to be trying to do a better job.

Ron Lemming · March 27th, 2007, 04:20 PM

Can you still lock and set the exposure with the EXP button when Cine Mode is activated?

Fergus Anderson · March 27th, 2007, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wes Vasher

Is information being thrown away or is it simply the in camera sharpening being turned down?

Well I think sharpness is being turned down - can this be reversed in vegas?
I like the contrast and gamma look otherwise - it just looks a little soft

Wes Vasher · March 27th, 2007, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fergus Anderson

Well I think sharpness is being turned down - can this be reversed in vegas?
I like the contrast and gamma look otherwise - it just looks a little soft

I would assume if you want to add sharpening that there would be either a sharpen or unsharp mask filter that would do the same thing as the in camera sharpener. I'm no expert. On my Canon point and shoot turning down sharpening makes for a softer picture but a much more natural picture IMO. I'd rather just use Photoshop's unsharp mask anyway and set the sharpness to exactly what I would want later, same theory for video?

John C. Chu · March 28th, 2007, 05:31 PM

Here are two clips from the HV20 with Cinemode on and off.

This was shot late afternoon near the 59th Street Bridge.

24p+Cinemode ON http://www.filefactory.com/file/e20c24/

24p+Cinemode OFF http://www.filefactory.com/file/6a1618/

The files are about 22-24 megs each.

Wes Vasher · March 28th, 2007, 06:24 PM

John, beautiful clips and what a great comparison of with and without cinema mode. The cinema mode on this clip looks amazing to me, very natural.

David Garvin · March 28th, 2007, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John C. Chu

Here are two clips from the HV20 with Cinemode on and off.

Thanks for uploading those. While I do like the cinemode, it leaves me feeling mushy in the blacks. I mean, I like the extra detail in the sky versus the hotspots in the 'off' clip, but with cinemode on I feel like there are no true blacks in the frame at all.

Nice comparison of the options. Thanks

Fergus Anderson · March 29th, 2007, 01:08 AM

thanks John just downloading now. Is it possible to edit the cine preset - it to just adjust the sharpness up while leaving the colour, gamma etc?

Cheers

John C. Chu · March 29th, 2007, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Lemming

Can you still lock and set the exposure with the EXP button when Cine Mode is activated?

I think so--The HV20 is tricky as you need to use the joystick to activate it.

You press it once...and you navigate using the joystick to EXPOSURE and select.

And then you have an option of increasing/decreasing exposure or leaving it alone.

This is one area where I wish the controls were more like the Sony PDX10.

John C. Chu · March 29th, 2007, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fergus Anderson

thanks John just downloading now. Is it possible to edit the cine preset - it to just adjust the sharpness up while leaving the colour, gamma etc?

Cheers

Nope...you can't do anything with Cinemode on except adjust exposure if desired.

Fergus Anderson · March 29th, 2007, 10:58 AM

Thats a real shame - I love the look apart from the fact I think its a little too soft - I could always sharpen in vegas I guess

Thanks for the footage - really great comparison - just what I was looking for. Any more would be welcomed :)

I noticed that in cine mode the fine branches were visible on the right (middle) of the picture unlike the non cine mode where they were blown out

John C. Chu · March 29th, 2007, 05:40 PM

Here's one more, 24p and Cinemode on.

Looking down 5th Avenue in NYC. It is a 40 megabyte file.

http://www.filefactory.com/file/c31f23/

March 27th, 2007, 07:58 AM	#18
Alan Dunkel Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 59	Any ideas as to shutter in Cine mode? Chris, I think the Cine mode looks absolutely fantastic when combined with the 24P setting. Any idea if the Cine mode is setting the shutter at 48 or some other fixed value? Regards, Alan

March 28th, 2007, 05:31 PM	#23
John C. Chu Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Rego Park , NYC Posts: 665	Here are two clips from the HV20 with Cinemode on and off. This was shot late afternoon near the 59th Street Bridge. 24p+Cinemode ON http://www.filefactory.com/file/e20c24/ 24p+Cinemode OFF http://www.filefactory.com/file/6a1618/ The files are about 22-24 megs each. Last edited by John C. Chu; March 28th, 2007 at 05:43 PM. Reason: Correct files added.

March 27th, 2007, 04:20 PM	#20
Ron Lemming Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 46	Can you still lock and set the exposure with the EXP button when Cine Mode is activated?

March 28th, 2007, 06:24 PM	#24
Wes Vasher Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 440	John, beautiful clips and what a great comparison of with and without cinema mode. The cinema mode on this clip looks amazing to me, very natural.

March 29th, 2007, 01:08 AM	#26
Fergus Anderson Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, UK Posts: 321	thanks John just downloading now. Is it possible to edit the cine preset - it to just adjust the sharpness up while leaving the colour, gamma etc? Cheers

March 29th, 2007, 10:58 AM	#29
Fergus Anderson Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, UK Posts: 321	Thats a real shame - I love the look apart from the fact I think its a little too soft - I could always sharpen in vegas I guess Thanks for the footage - really great comparison - just what I was looking for. Any more would be welcomed :) I noticed that in cine mode the fine branches were visible on the right (middle) of the picture unlike the non cine mode where they were blown out

March 29th, 2007, 05:40 PM	#30
John C. Chu Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Rego Park , NYC Posts: 665	Here's one more, 24p and Cinemode on. Looking down 5th Avenue in NYC. It is a 40 megabyte file. http://www.filefactory.com/file/c31f23/