HV10 and HV20 downconvert quality? at DVinfo.net

Matt Buys · February 20th, 2007, 02:49 PM

I'm looking for a small camera light enough to carry on a bike for days and days. If I were to downconvert the HD to SD would that 1/2.7 chip still be fairly sharp as compared to my heavier Sony VX1000 provided there was adequate lighting?

Pieter Jongerius · February 20th, 2007, 04:13 PM

Hi Matt,
here's what I think: because of the immense decrease in resolution, the HD footage would have to be quite awful to notice unsharpness in SD resolution. The image would be scaled 3 times smaller (1920>640px of width) for NTSC and 2,7 times smaller for PAL. So yes, I think so. Even if you consider the 3CCD color resolution advantage the VX1000 has, the HV series cams would have no problem because of the headstart they have at HD resolution.

You may want to do the downscaling in post, though, as that is the only way to avoid the standard DV (YUV) color compression. Disadvantage: MPEG2 compression. Yes, always something...

Prepare for worse sound quality, however. At least the HV20 has ext. mic connection, although I don't know about that on a bike :). You might consider the DM50 microphone that fits on the HV20 hot shoe. I have it, it sounds okay.

Lee Wilson · February 20th, 2007, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Buys

I'm looking for a small camera light enough to carry on a bike for days and days. If I were to downconvert the HD to SD would that 1/2.7 chip still be fairly sharp as compared to my heavier Sony VX1000 provided there was adequate lighting?

...in short...a SD image scaled down from a HD image on the HV10 looks stunning...leagues ahead of any SD camera I have ever used.

Matt Buys · February 20th, 2007, 08:48 PM

Thanks. This camera sounds like the perfect fit for what I need. A highly portable camera--have to pack it on my bike for eight days--that will provide high quality footage for a small time documentary. Is it even worth it to bring a mic if I'm going to down convert? Should I just curtail my project toward a full voice over? I have senn me66. It might be nice to get some ambient noise and a few conversations outside.

Pieter Jongerius · February 21st, 2007, 09:09 AM

Hi Matt,

downconverting has virtually no effect on the audio as long as you take care of a few technicalities. As a matter of fact, standard DV theoretically has a slightly better audio quality than HDV, although I know I would not hear the difference.

So about the microphone: of course it all depends on the content you wish to create. But as you may conclude from the above, downconverting from HDV to SD is no reason not to bring the microphone! (I personally like the DM50 because of the no-hassle click-on right out of my backpack, but I bet that that Sennheiser has better specs.)

Matt Buys · February 21st, 2007, 01:00 PM

Thanks Pieter, I'll be biking near you with it. Going to take a bike tour of the Belgian monastery breweries in May. You live in beautiful biking country. Going to order my camera now. I appreciate your help in wading with me through all the technical mumbo-jumbo. Without this site I think I'd still be out there with my twenty year old video camera wondering why everything is blurry.

Pieter Jongerius · February 21st, 2007, 01:17 PM

Hi Matt, sounds great. Be sure to order some local fried potatoe chips (a Belgium specialty) along with those wonderfull beers and tell me what you think!

regs
Pieter

Joe Busch · February 21st, 2007, 07:33 PM

http://www.lousyheros.com/videos/pb2.wmv - 1440 x 1080 shot w/ HV10...
http://www.lousyheros.com/videos/pb.wmv - 856 x 480 shot w/ Hv10

Both were compressed to "60" % video quality... still look pretty good ;)

Daymon Hoffman · February 26th, 2007, 04:07 AM

Joe,

Those are some stunning little clips with the paintballing there. :) Gosh if thats what i canexpect from the HV20 - i REALLY can't wait. hehe you wouldnt be able to put a min of raw HDV up of that part?

I sooo can't wait to upgrade my pathetic MVX3i. It has shocking image quality. hehe

February 20th, 2007, 02:49 PM	#1
Matt Buys Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Asheville NC Posts: 426	HV10 and HV20 downconvert quality? I'm looking for a small camera light enough to carry on a bike for days and days. If I were to downconvert the HD to SD would that 1/2.7 chip still be fairly sharp as compared to my heavier Sony VX1000 provided there was adequate lighting?

February 26th, 2007, 04:07 AM	#9
Daymon Hoffman Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 267	Joe, Those are some stunning little clips with the paintballing there. :) Gosh if thats what i canexpect from the HV20 - i REALLY can't wait. hehe you wouldnt be able to put a min of raw HDV up of that part? I sooo can't wait to upgrade my pathetic MVX3i. It has shocking image quality. hehe __________________ Welcome... to the real world!

February 20th, 2007, 04:13 PM	#2
Pieter Jongerius Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 101	Hi Matt, here's what I think: because of the immense decrease in resolution, the HD footage would have to be quite awful to notice unsharpness in SD resolution. The image would be scaled 3 times smaller (1920>640px of width) for NTSC and 2,7 times smaller for PAL. So yes, I think so. Even if you consider the 3CCD color resolution advantage the VX1000 has, the HV series cams would have no problem because of the headstart they have at HD resolution. You may want to do the downscaling in post, though, as that is the only way to avoid the standard DV (YUV) color compression. Disadvantage: MPEG2 compression. Yes, always something... Prepare for worse sound quality, however. At least the HV20 has ext. mic connection, although I don't know about that on a bike :). You might consider the DM50 microphone that fits on the HV20 hot shoe. I have it, it sounds okay.

February 20th, 2007, 08:48 PM	#4
Matt Buys Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Asheville NC Posts: 426	Thanks. This camera sounds like the perfect fit for what I need. A highly portable camera--have to pack it on my bike for eight days--that will provide high quality footage for a small time documentary. Is it even worth it to bring a mic if I'm going to down convert? Should I just curtail my project toward a full voice over? I have senn me66. It might be nice to get some ambient noise and a few conversations outside.

February 21st, 2007, 09:09 AM	#5
Pieter Jongerius Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 101	Hi Matt, downconverting has virtually no effect on the audio as long as you take care of a few technicalities. As a matter of fact, standard DV theoretically has a slightly better audio quality than HDV, although I know I would not hear the difference. So about the microphone: of course it all depends on the content you wish to create. But as you may conclude from the above, downconverting from HDV to SD is no reason not to bring the microphone! (I personally like the DM50 because of the no-hassle click-on right out of my backpack, but I bet that that Sennheiser has better specs.)

February 21st, 2007, 01:00 PM	#6
Matt Buys Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Asheville NC Posts: 426	Thanks Pieter, I'll be biking near you with it. Going to take a bike tour of the Belgian monastery breweries in May. You live in beautiful biking country. Going to order my camera now. I appreciate your help in wading with me through all the technical mumbo-jumbo. Without this site I think I'd still be out there with my twenty year old video camera wondering why everything is blurry.

February 21st, 2007, 01:17 PM	#7
Pieter Jongerius Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 101	Hi Matt, sounds great. Be sure to order some local fried potatoe chips (a Belgium specialty) along with those wonderfull beers and tell me what you think! regs Pieter

February 21st, 2007, 07:33 PM	#8
Joe Busch Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sammamish, WA Posts: 398	http://www.lousyheros.com/videos/pb2.wmv - 1440 x 1080 shot w/ HV10... http://www.lousyheros.com/videos/pb.wmv - 856 x 480 shot w/ Hv10 Both were compressed to "60" % video quality... still look pretty good ;)