Is the HV20 for me? (Details within)

[Owen Meek]

Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira

So are you also saying that the XD-CAM discs aren’t reliable as well.

no, i wasn't aware of XDCam grade discs. i don't know how this bluray is gonna pan out but i have had very bad experience with DVDR, HDD to even think of them as an archive solution.

but as mentioned for the budget filmmaker minidv is very cost effective and reliable. even if HDD fails, go back to your trusty tapes and transfer again.

[Lorry Smyth]

I will be buying an HV20 to replace my HV10 as soon as its out. On the subject of the GZ-HD7 Everio 1) it does not record Progressive Video (which is ridiculous since the JVC uses native Progressive CCDs anyway and over 1/2 of all internal video processing is done at 1080p) and 2) because the CCDs native resolution at 960x540 is low, despite using Pixel Shifting. To do a "TrueHD" camera with a fujinon lens, etc, and then NOT use full res 1920x1080 imagers in it, does not make sense.

I shot regularly with the Panny HVX200 that is an absolutely fabulous camera (also using 960x540 imagers and pixel shifting like the JVC). However, let's face it, when it comes to sheer image resolution and detail, my current HV10 completely smashes it. JVC did almost everything right on the design of the GZ-HD7 and they could have made it "THE" 1080 camera and get rid of all competition. But no. Low-res imagers and no progressive recording... nothing will touch the HV20, specailly for the price. I think Canon is on the right path to rule the Consumer and Prosumer HD markets and I feel the HV20 will be one of the most important groundbreaking products of the year as far as price, features and overall quality.

[Paulo Teixeira]

There are many other people on this board that own the HVX200 who would say that its picture quality is much better than all of the HDV camcorders but its also true that what looks good to one person may not look so good to someone else.

Another example you can use is the FX7. During the day when you’re shooting outside, its interlaced images are better than the XH-A1 and its pixels are lower. Here are some examples. http://www.fxsupport.de/15.html. That’s just comparing the XH-A1 to the FX7 with smaller imagers. The V1u is even better.

You can argue that it’s because the FX7 is using CMOS images while the XH-A1 uses CCDs but in the case of the JVC HD7, the electronics inside is completely new.
“In the development in a bid to realize 1920 x 1080i recording, JVC started from entire revision of major parts, namely the camera block including the lens and prism as well as circuits capable of 1920 x 1080i video processing, among others.”

Anyway, like I said the pixels are 1016x558 although the effective pixel count is 976x548.
“The camcorder uses a 3-CCD camera system. The CCD is a 1/5-inch model and its aspect ratio is 16:9. Its total resolution is 0.57 megapixels (effective resolution 0.53 megapixels = 976 x 548) and output is progressive. Of the CCDs respectively dedicated to R (red), G (green) and B (blue) recording, only the G-dedicated CCD's optical position is offset and fixed from the other CCDs' by one-half pixel in both vertical and horizontal axis, which is so-called "Pixel Shift structure" (already employed for the "GZ-MG505"). JVC secured total resolution of 2032 x 1116 and effective resolution of 1952 x 1096 pixels through this technology.”

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english...070208/127547/

We shouldn’t be downgrading this camcorder before we see any images and JVC have specifically said that there are features that they don’t want the public to know about yet so who know, their may actually be modes such as 720 60p, 720 30p and even 720 24p and we're not going to find out about it until its almost released.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...rderinfo&hl=en

[Paulo Teixeira]

Originally Posted by Owen Meek

no, i wasn't aware of XDCam grade discs. i don't know how this bluray is gonna pan out but i have had very bad experience with DVDR, HDD to even think of them as an archive solution.

XDCAM discs are Blu-Ray by the way.

Just like everybody else, I want the prices of standard Blu-Ray discs to fall but as is, it’s still very affordable, just 15 dollars for a 25 gig disc and 37 dollars for a 50 gig disc although 600 dollars is very pricy for a burner but it will go down very quickly.

[Mike Horrigan]

I have a question. Can I use the S-400 (firewire?) port on my laptop to capture video from the HV20?

Is this the best way to do just that?

I want to know what options I have, and what would be best.

Thanks,

Mike

[Paulo Teixeira]

Originally Posted by Mike Horrigan

I have a question. Can I use the S-400 (firewire?) port on my laptop to capture video from the HV20?

Is this the best way to do just that?

I want to know what options I have, and what would be best.

Thanks,

Mike

Yes, it is the main way to transfer your video to the computer natively. For HDV video, you just need to make sure you have SP2 installed in Windows XP.

[Mike Horrigan]

Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira

Yes, it is the main way to transfer your video to the computer natively. For HDV video, you just need to make sure you have SP2 installed in Windows XP.

It's a new laptop and SP2 is installed, I keep it fully up to date.

Thanks, Paul.

Any othe tips for editing HDV?

I have 2 GB's of RAM and an Intel Centrino Duo 1.6 Ghz processor. Will that be enough? Using Premiere Pro 2.0

Thanks,

Mike

[Paulo Teixeira]

Your Processor may or may not be powerful enough if you had only 1 gig but the fact that you have 2 gigs of RAM, you should be fine.

[Ken Hodson]

Pana has just announced a small AVCHD 3ccd cam that uses mem cards 44/88 min that off load to a 40gig HDD. JVC has is mentioned 3ccd HDD model using better then HDV compression, and Canon with the HV-20 with HDV tape. All three cams are very exciting with each their pro's and con's.
The Canon will have the worst low light performance, but also will cost half of the $ of the other two cams. One thing for sure nothing will be as cheap as the Canon. Consumers are migrating to HDD cams because of ease of use. They want the footage into their PC now, not in an hour. Tape has its merits for some as an achieving medium. The Canon may very well have the sharpest image, but the worst manual controls. As far as features, frame rates/progressive or not, we have to wait for the actual spring release of these little puppies to really compare.

[Mike Horrigan]

Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira

Your Processor may or may not be powerful enough if you had only 1 gig but the fact that you have 2 gigs of RAM, you should be fine.

Thanks again, Paul!

[Mike Horrigan]

Originally Posted by Ken Hodson

The Canon may very well have the sharpest image, but the worst manual controls. As far as features, frame rates/progressive or not, we have to wait for the actual spring release of these little puppies to really compare.

You are probably right... but this..

Adding to the professional look of the HD video captured by the HV20 HD Camcorder is Canon's Smooth Zoom Speed Control. Offering users a choice of three pre-set zoom speeds, the zoom speed control helps ensure that no matter how hard the user may press the zoom button, the pace of the zoom will remain smooth and constant.

...sounds promising. LINK

Originally Posted by Ken Hodson

The Canon will have the worst low light performance

Is that true? I thought the HV20 improved that quite a bit. Still nowhere near the others?

[Paulo Teixeira]

Between the lowlight capabilities and picture quality, it’s really a tossup between the Canon HV20, Sony HC7, JVC HD7 and the Panasonic AG-HSC1U. We can all agree or disagree about how the picture quality is going to be but one thing we should all agree on is waiting until there are proper reviews for each camcorder before anybody makes the final decision.

Anyway, by the time every one of these camcorders is out, we will see more camcorders in NAB since it will be held in April.

[Michael Struthers]

Look at the miracles they are now doing in post with even mini-dv (such as Inland Empire). I'm sure, for enough money, they could make hv20 footage look like super16mm.

[Lawrence Bansbach]

Originally Posted by Michael Struthers

Look at the miracles they are now doing in post with even mini-dv (such as Inland Empire). I'm sure, for enough money, they could make hv20 footage look like super16mm.

In some ways HV20 footage could look as good as or better than super 16 (roughly the same resolution, but not as much grain), but the dynamic range and color depth will be inferior, at least in theory (how noticeable the difference is depends on a host of factors). You can't, however, compare the HV20's lens to Zeiss, Cooke, Canon, etc., super 16 glass, which costs 10 to 15 times the price of the HV20. But getting the most out of the HV20 shouldn't cost a lot more than any other film-out. Most of the quality is achieved through the same basic techniques used to shoot film or any form of video (e.g., adequate lighting, proper focus, and [specifically for video] avoid excessive edge enhancement). In defense of the HV20, at least it's supposed to support 24p, so a frame-rate conversion or shooting with PAL gear would be unnecessary for film-out.