Canon HV20 Press Release, Overview and more

Luis A. Diaz · February 2nd, 2007, 05:31 PM

[/QUOTE]
Canon decided to do it the correct way and make it a real 24p.

I have been reading a lot on the 24p now that the Hv-20 is coming out with it, from a prosumer point of view I can see that you will need to plan your shots very carefully, avoid rapid pans and in general rapid motion undeliberate filming, there is also the benefit of wider color gamut and wider grayscale with less chance to burn the highlights.
Aside from those advantages/disadvantages can you think of other benefits of the 24 frame rate.
Thanks,
Luis

Daymon Hoffman · February 3rd, 2007, 07:42 AM

Well well well. I can't believe it. I leave the forum for a number of days and news like this brakes! I can't beleive it. i get pretty much what i wanted the HV10 to be. Well, minus 1080p60 to a solid state format and 20x lens with manual focus and zoom. :P

lol the only thing i need to wait for is for someone to get one and find out if HDMI out is before signal processing and dumbing down to HDV. Something tells me it wont be. :( Oh and the aussie priceing. Something tells me we'll get raped in that department like always.

But well done Canon. At least they have a little bit of RED seeping through for us conned sumers. :)

Yi Fong Yu · February 3rd, 2007, 02:16 PM

i can just see it now, consumers complaining to Canon Consumer division saying that HV20 sux and is "broken" because it is soooooooooooooooo blurry when on cinematic look.

lol!!!

Tom Voigt · February 3rd, 2007, 03:34 PM

From back upthread:
>Here's a side question: which do you think gets better low-light: the GL2 or this new HV-20

One hint is at Camcorderinfo.com with the 15 lux captures from a GL-2 and a HV-10. Assuming that nothing has changed in their test methodology for the past few years, the HV-10 looks better to my eyes.

-Tom-

Chris Hurd · February 3rd, 2007, 04:36 PM

Sorry, attachments removed -- please don't upload the property of another site to our server, it is a copyright violation. Just post a link to the original location please.

Tom Voigt · February 3rd, 2007, 05:04 PM

Camcorderinfo has 15 lux test charts.

GL-2 is somewhere in here.
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...1300_group.htm

HV10 is here (BTW they reference H1 comparisons, but all the charts read HV10?)
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...erformance.htm

Holly Rognan · February 3rd, 2007, 06:41 PM

Take most tests done at camcorderinfo with a grain of salt. Most reviews have significant errors, and the testing has changed over the years. The Numerical testing system is very inconsistent, and they often praise a product for a feature and condemn it for that very feature.

Tom Voigt · February 3rd, 2007, 07:20 PM

Holly,

All I am referencing is the 15 lux test charts. Same test chart, hopefully same 15 lux lighting, two cameras, one small data point that seems to suggest that the HV10 does at least as well if not better than the GL-2 in available darkness.

Chris Hurd · February 3rd, 2007, 07:29 PM

Maybe it's about time we do our own charts... DV Info Net style. How does that sound.

DSC Labs is already a sponsor here. All of the elements are in place as far as I can tell.

Tom Voigt · February 3rd, 2007, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Maybe it's about time we do our own charts... DV Info Net style. How does that sound.

DSC Labs is already a sponsor here. All of the elements are in place as far as I can tell.

It sounds like a great idea!

A number of the digital camera sites have a set chart and still life they use for every camera. That way you get an apples to apples comparison between two cameras.

The Imaging Resource Comparometer is a nice implementation.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM

-Tom-

Daymon Hoffman · February 4th, 2007, 12:34 AM

Chris,

Thats a good idea. I'd trust this site. :) I'd like to suggest a time line feature that could possibly be updated with a few trusted ppl. Similar to dpreview's timeline. Showing camera model number and date released. Its an awesome thing to track your next purchase with and to just see when the camera your about to purchase was really released and actually seeing its 10months old already can be a help. :)

Ken Ross · February 4th, 2007, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Maybe it's about time we do our own charts... DV Info Net style. How does that sound.

DSC Labs is already a sponsor here. All of the elements are in place as far as I can tell.

Having a 2nd reliable source would be a great idea Chris!

Steven White · February 4th, 2007, 02:44 PM

Ultimately I don't think the 24p features will be useful to the typical HD consumer. Most people will switch to 24p and see that it looks very jerky. Purists will complain about "jutter" and the like.

Because it's a 1/2.7" chip, the DOF will not be very shallow - which will make pans and steadicam work look very stroboscopic. Only those people who really understand what it takes to make deep DOF 24p video look good will benefit from the feature. For those people, this camera will be a budget conscious boon.

I would most certainly purchase this camera over the FX1 if it was available at the time. Of course, it wasn't, so the FX1 is what I've got.

Camcorders like this bode very well for the consumer of the future... who knows what the next generation will hold!

-Steve

Pieter Jongerius · February 4th, 2007, 02:58 PM

Maybe it would reintroduce in a way the shakey (is that a word?) feel of those old 8mm films :)

btw nice picture overview behind that Amazon link:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/ima...&s=electronics.

I'm having a hard time guessing whether my Canon WD-43 0.7 converter will not obstruct the instant focus sensor.
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/...CLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Chris Hurd · February 4th, 2007, 03:28 PM

Yes -- either converter (wide or tele) will obstruct the I.AF sensor.

February 3rd, 2007, 07:42 AM	#77
Daymon Hoffman Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 267	Well well well. I can't believe it. I leave the forum for a number of days and news like this brakes! I can't beleive it. i get pretty much what i wanted the HV10 to be. Well, minus 1080p60 to a solid state format and 20x lens with manual focus and zoom. :P lol the only thing i need to wait for is for someone to get one and find out if HDMI out is before signal processing and dumbing down to HDV. Something tells me it wont be. :( Oh and the aussie priceing. Something tells me we'll get raped in that department like always. But well done Canon. At least they have a little bit of RED seeping through for us conned sumers. :) __________________ Welcome... to the real world!

February 3rd, 2007, 02:16 PM	#78
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	i can just see it now, consumers complaining to Canon Consumer division saying that HV20 sux and is "broken" because it is soooooooooooooooo blurry when on cinematic look. lol!!! __________________ bow wow wow

February 3rd, 2007, 03:34 PM	#79
Tom Voigt Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 92	HV20 vs GL-2 Lowlight? From back upthread: >Here's a side question: which do you think gets better low-light: the GL2 or this new HV-20 One hint is at Camcorderinfo.com with the 15 lux captures from a GL-2 and a HV-10. Assuming that nothing has changed in their test methodology for the past few years, the HV-10 looks better to my eyes. -Tom-

February 3rd, 2007, 04:36 PM	#80
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Sorry, attachments removed -- please don't upload the property of another site to our server, it is a copyright violation. Just post a link to the original location please. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 3rd, 2007, 05:04 PM	#81
Tom Voigt Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 92	Links to GL-2, HV10 15lux Camcorderinfo has 15 lux test charts. GL-2 is somewhere in here. http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...1300_group.htm HV10 is here (BTW they reference H1 comparisons, but all the charts read HV10?) http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...erformance.htm

February 2nd, 2007, 05:31 PM	#76
Luis A. Diaz Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Miami, Florida. USA. Posts: 138	[/QUOTE] Canon decided to do it the correct way and make it a real 24p. I have been reading a lot on the 24p now that the Hv-20 is coming out with it, from a prosumer point of view I can see that you will need to plan your shots very carefully, avoid rapid pans and in general rapid motion undeliberate filming, there is also the benefit of wider color gamut and wider grayscale with less chance to burn the highlights. Aside from those advantages/disadvantages can you think of other benefits of the 24 frame rate. Thanks, Luis

February 3rd, 2007, 06:41 PM	#82
Holly Rognan Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Coalville America Posts: 244	Take most tests done at camcorderinfo with a grain of salt. Most reviews have significant errors, and the testing has changed over the years. The Numerical testing system is very inconsistent, and they often praise a product for a feature and condemn it for that very feature.

February 3rd, 2007, 07:20 PM	#83
Tom Voigt Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 92	Holly, All I am referencing is the 15 lux test charts. Same test chart, hopefully same 15 lux lighting, two cameras, one small data point that seems to suggest that the HV10 does at least as well if not better than the GL-2 in available darkness.

February 3rd, 2007, 07:29 PM	#84
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Maybe it's about time we do our own charts... DV Info Net style. How does that sound. DSC Labs is already a sponsor here. All of the elements are in place as far as I can tell. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 4th, 2007, 12:34 AM	#86
Daymon Hoffman Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 267	Chris, Thats a good idea. I'd trust this site. :) I'd like to suggest a time line feature that could possibly be updated with a few trusted ppl. Similar to dpreview's timeline. Showing camera model number and date released. Its an awesome thing to track your next purchase with and to just see when the camera your about to purchase was really released and actually seeing its 10months old already can be a help. :) __________________ Welcome... to the real world!

February 4th, 2007, 02:44 PM	#88
Steven White Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 547	Ultimately I don't think the 24p features will be useful to the typical HD consumer. Most people will switch to 24p and see that it looks very jerky. Purists will complain about "jutter" and the like. Because it's a 1/2.7" chip, the DOF will not be very shallow - which will make pans and steadicam work look very stroboscopic. Only those people who really understand what it takes to make deep DOF 24p video look good will benefit from the feature. For those people, this camera will be a budget conscious boon. I would most certainly purchase this camera over the FX1 if it was available at the time. Of course, it wasn't, so the FX1 is what I've got. Camcorders like this bode very well for the consumer of the future... who knows what the next generation will hold! -Steve

February 4th, 2007, 02:58 PM	#89
Pieter Jongerius Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 101	Maybe it would reintroduce in a way the shakey (is that a word?) feel of those old 8mm films :) btw nice picture overview behind that Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/ima...&s=electronics. I'm having a hard time guessing whether my Canon WD-43 0.7 converter will not obstruct the instant focus sensor. http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/...CLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

February 4th, 2007, 03:28 PM	#90
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Yes -- either converter (wide or tele) will obstruct the I.AF sensor. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!