best way to record good audio with HV-10??? at DVinfo.net

Malcolm Hamilton · January 16th, 2007, 03:43 PM

Hi there,
I work in tv, and work with people using big Sony SX cameras with XLR audio inputs, etc. I'm not one of these people; I'm not technologically-gifted, but I want to try some new things, for broadcast, with a small hd camera...
It would seem to me, though, that I need a camera with an audio 'in' jack. Is it true that the HV-10 doesn't have this?
Given that, would I be stuck with a camera that shoots superb-quality video, but gets poor quality audio?
Does any other small/one-chip/inexpensive hd camera come with an audio in, to anyone's knowledge?
Thanks for advice,
Malcolm

Zack Birlew · January 16th, 2007, 08:05 PM

There's currently no cheap little camera HDV with XLR connections under $2,000 except for the discontinued JVC HD10U which you can find on eBay but that comes with a lot of negative baggage and hassle.

The HV10 would need to have an external sound recorder such as the Tascam P2 or Zoom H4 (most cost effective) or many others. If you take a look at the "HV10 and M2" thread I started, here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=80227

I list a possible configuration for a cost effective HV10 package from B&H Photo.

Yes, there are other smaller HDV cameras with basic audio-in jacks. The Sony HC3, the discontinued Sony HC1, and there are the alternative Sony AVCHD models, the UX1 and SR1, and the MPEG-4 720p-only Sanyo HD1a. The Sanyo supposedly has issues with its audio-in jack and I don't think it would suit your purposes at all. Also, the AVCHD models have image quality issues with low light compared to their HDV competitors. Keep in mind that all of these cameras would need an XLR mixer such as the Beachtek line of mixers which would connect to your audio-in jack and allow you to plug in XLR microphones to the mixer for use with whatever camera you're using. Had Canon only provided at least a basic audio-in jack on the HV10, many I'm sure would have used this method.

Do keep in mind that Sony, Panasonic, and JVC have announced new HDV (JVC and Sony) and AVCHD (Sony and Panasonic) models which all seem to feature an audio-in jack. Plug a Beachtek adapter into any of these and you're good to go as far as professional audio goes.

In the end, with the HV10 you'll have to do a seperate system and with almost everything else, you'll have to use a Beachtek or similar mixer.

Malcolm Hamilton · January 16th, 2007, 09:23 PM

Wow. Thank you Jack for such a thorough reply. What a great forum. I'll reply myself, in more detail, tomorrow; I just wanted to say something now about how delighted I am with this info.
Regards,
Malcolm

Malcolm Hamilton · January 17th, 2007, 11:50 AM

Hi again Jack,
Interesting to read about the Zoom H4 and the other (expensive) thing... I have a much cheaper version of a digital recorder, an M-Audio MicroTrack.
I thought of attaching a good lapel mic to this unit, and putting it in my subject's pocket.
So I'd record good video (and whatever sound I get with the HV10's ext. mic), and get good audio (I hope) with the MicroTrack. Then when it comes to editing, I'd have to sync the sound with the picture - - a bit of a headache, I'm sure (the MicroTrack doesn't have time-code).
Do you think this would work?
Cheers,
Malcolm
P.S. I followed your link to the M2... I'm a bit confused. Is the M2 a lens adapter that would allow you to connect a Nikon lens to the HV10? If so, I don't understand why it's $1300. Is this for a whole series of adapters?

Mike Brown · January 17th, 2007, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malcolm Hamilton

Hi again Jack,
P.S. I followed your link to the M2... I'm a bit confused. Is the M2 a lens adapter that would allow you to connect a Nikon lens to the HV10? If so, I don't understand why it's $1300. Is this for a whole series of adapters?

These 35 mm adapters are more complicated than just mating different thread diameters. They have a motor-driven ground glass disc inside, onto which is projected the image from the Nikon lens, with its shallow depth of field. The camcorder's lens is then fixed-focused to record the projected image from the rotating ground glass surface.

The adapter cost is still lower than any camcorder which can natively use 35 mm lenses.

Zack Birlew · January 17th, 2007, 07:17 PM

Well, as far as the editing process goes with a seperate recorder, yeah, you'd have to sync things up no matter what you use. =/

Took a look at the Microtrack, seems like it'd work pretty well if you're using the proper microphones. However, it didn't seem to have XLR connections? That would already cut out quite a section of your microphone choices. But if you've got one already, why not give it a shot? =)

Oh yes, the 35mm adapter is a different subject, but I was just showing what a steal the HV10 is right now that B&H dropped the price to $950. Usually I see it selling at Fry's Electronics or something for $1,200-$1,400, at least last time I checked.

Malcolm Hamilton · January 18th, 2007, 08:20 AM

thanks both Mike and Jack,
I now understand why the M2 is costly.
Re the MicroTrack... I've got an XLR-type mic, that goes from XLR to 1/8" to get into the MicroTrack.
I'll be giving it a try sometime soon, I hope. But, despite the drop in price for the HV10, I think I'll wait for the next release of some of these cameras, to see if any of them have an audio in. That way I could use an RF mic, and get sync sound easily.
All the best,
Malcolm

January 16th, 2007, 03:43 PM	#1
Malcolm Hamilton Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 844	best way to record good audio with HV-10??? Hi there, I work in tv, and work with people using big Sony SX cameras with XLR audio inputs, etc. I'm not one of these people; I'm not technologically-gifted, but I want to try some new things, for broadcast, with a small hd camera... It would seem to me, though, that I need a camera with an audio 'in' jack. Is it true that the HV-10 doesn't have this? Given that, would I be stuck with a camera that shoots superb-quality video, but gets poor quality audio? Does any other small/one-chip/inexpensive hd camera come with an audio in, to anyone's knowledge? Thanks for advice, Malcolm

January 16th, 2007, 08:05 PM	#2
Zack Birlew Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 613	There's currently no cheap little camera HDV with XLR connections under $2,000 except for the discontinued JVC HD10U which you can find on eBay but that comes with a lot of negative baggage and hassle. The HV10 would need to have an external sound recorder such as the Tascam P2 or Zoom H4 (most cost effective) or many others. If you take a look at the "HV10 and M2" thread I started, here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=80227 I list a possible configuration for a cost effective HV10 package from B&H Photo. Yes, there are other smaller HDV cameras with basic audio-in jacks. The Sony HC3, the discontinued Sony HC1, and there are the alternative Sony AVCHD models, the UX1 and SR1, and the MPEG-4 720p-only Sanyo HD1a. The Sanyo supposedly has issues with its audio-in jack and I don't think it would suit your purposes at all. Also, the AVCHD models have image quality issues with low light compared to their HDV competitors. Keep in mind that all of these cameras would need an XLR mixer such as the Beachtek line of mixers which would connect to your audio-in jack and allow you to plug in XLR microphones to the mixer for use with whatever camera you're using. Had Canon only provided at least a basic audio-in jack on the HV10, many I'm sure would have used this method. Do keep in mind that Sony, Panasonic, and JVC have announced new HDV (JVC and Sony) and AVCHD (Sony and Panasonic) models which all seem to feature an audio-in jack. Plug a Beachtek adapter into any of these and you're good to go as far as professional audio goes. In the end, with the HV10 you'll have to do a seperate system and with almost everything else, you'll have to use a Beachtek or similar mixer. __________________ "Babs Do or Babs Do not, there is no try." - Zack Birlew www.BabsDoProductions.com

January 17th, 2007, 07:17 PM	#6
Zack Birlew Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 613	Well, as far as the editing process goes with a seperate recorder, yeah, you'd have to sync things up no matter what you use. =/ Took a look at the Microtrack, seems like it'd work pretty well if you're using the proper microphones. However, it didn't seem to have XLR connections? That would already cut out quite a section of your microphone choices. But if you've got one already, why not give it a shot? =) Oh yes, the 35mm adapter is a different subject, but I was just showing what a steal the HV10 is right now that B&H dropped the price to $950. Usually I see it selling at Fry's Electronics or something for $1,200-$1,400, at least last time I checked. __________________ "Babs Do or Babs Do not, there is no try." - Zack Birlew www.BabsDoProductions.com

January 16th, 2007, 09:23 PM	#3
Malcolm Hamilton Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 844	Wow. Thank you Jack for such a thorough reply. What a great forum. I'll reply myself, in more detail, tomorrow; I just wanted to say something now about how delighted I am with this info. Regards, Malcolm

January 17th, 2007, 11:50 AM	#4
Malcolm Hamilton Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 844	Hi again Jack, Interesting to read about the Zoom H4 and the other (expensive) thing... I have a much cheaper version of a digital recorder, an M-Audio MicroTrack. I thought of attaching a good lapel mic to this unit, and putting it in my subject's pocket. So I'd record good video (and whatever sound I get with the HV10's ext. mic), and get good audio (I hope) with the MicroTrack. Then when it comes to editing, I'd have to sync the sound with the picture - - a bit of a headache, I'm sure (the MicroTrack doesn't have time-code). Do you think this would work? Cheers, Malcolm P.S. I followed your link to the M2... I'm a bit confused. Is the M2 a lens adapter that would allow you to connect a Nikon lens to the HV10? If so, I don't understand why it's $1300. Is this for a whole series of adapters?

January 18th, 2007, 08:20 AM	#7
Malcolm Hamilton Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 844	thanks both Mike and Jack, I now understand why the M2 is costly. Re the MicroTrack... I've got an XLR-type mic, that goes from XLR to 1/8" to get into the MicroTrack. I'll be giving it a try sometime soon, I hope. But, despite the drop in price for the HV10, I think I'll wait for the next release of some of these cameras, to see if any of them have an audio in. That way I could use an RF mic, and get sync sound easily. All the best, Malcolm