Possible flaw w/HV10? at DVinfo.net

Steve Nunez · November 2nd, 2006, 03:25 PM

Hey guys- I've noticed my particular HV10 does a weird shimmer/shake when IS is supposedly engaged causing a nasty vibration to the footage- has anyone else had this occur?

I am going to try to get some video up, showing this for scrutiny- in the meantime has anyone else seen this happen?

My guess is that whatever stabilization is supposed to be going on sorta "revs up" in anticipation of shake and actually causes shaky video itself....is there a mechanical gyro in the camera?
The footage evetually evens out but this seems like a flaw in the implimentation of IS.
Footage here:
http://stevenunez.com/hosted/hv10tremble.mov

Let it load as it's NOT a progressive download- it's under 3mb so wait a short bit.

The curious thing is that mere seconds later the trembling disappears......but it definitely starts again if you stop recording and resume later...seems like the IS is initially overcompensating or something.

Note: I'm a freehand airbrush artist and I have steadier hands than the average guy- so that shake you see isn't me- the IS was definitely on!

Jay Stebbins · November 2nd, 2006, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Nunez

Note: I'm a freehand airbrush artist and I have steadier hands than the average guy- so that shake you see isn't me- the IS was definitely on!

Steve, nice paint on the tank... if that is your work then it must be an issue with the IS..

Not that I would really know about the IS, but the tank, that is nice

Steve Nunez · November 2nd, 2006, 03:58 PM

Thanks. It's actually the tail section- here's what it looks like:
http://stevenunez.com/cycles/SinCity/DSCF0073.jpg

(Here's the tank <showing off>)
http://stevenunez.com/cycles/SinCity/DSCF0035.jpg

Even Solberg · November 2nd, 2006, 04:03 PM

Mine works fine. Could be you have a troublesome copy, perhaps?

Steve Nunez · November 2nd, 2006, 04:06 PM

Could be--- I hope it's an isolated case (bad for me but good for everyone else.)

Lee Wilson · November 2nd, 2006, 04:39 PM

I think 'Douglas Spotted Eagle' mentions this in the following thread.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=78228

I have not seen this 'shaking' thing on my HV10 (PAL version).

Steve Nunez · November 2nd, 2006, 04:45 PM

Looks like others are having an issue with this as well. I hope this doesn't happen with the A1.

Hawood Giles · November 2nd, 2006, 06:12 PM

No jerking and trembling going on here with my HV10. At least not of the kind as seen in the Steve Nunez mov file. The Nunez clip appears more like typical handheld shaking, rather than a flaw with OIS. That said, I have experienced a different kind of motion anomaly, which occurs when a subject abruptly appears in a scene, while panning. Example: an unintended person, vehicle, or moving object trespasses across the scene being filmed. Not always, but occasionally, the trespasser's motion becomes stuck for a split second, and then regains it's pace. The momentary pause appears to affect ONLY the fast-moving trespasser, and not other moving objects in the scene.

Presently, I'm uncertain as to whether this rare motion anomaly originates during filming, during editing, during burning to HD-DVD, or during playback of HD-DVD edited/burned footage. Meaning that I've never played back raw video from my HV10 on my HD TV.; I've only played back fully edited footage (in HD-DVD format) burned to a DVD disk. Inasmuch as I've seen similar "hesitation" in commercially-produced HD-DVD movies, I'm tentatively inclined to eliminate the HV10 as the cause of this RARE anomaly.

Note: Since I never film hand-held (always use a Monopod with OIS OFF); more reason for me to doubt that OIS is the cause of "jerkiness" or other motion anomaly with the HV10.

I welcome any views that agree with, or differ from my TENTATIVE analysis.

VM/HDG

Steve Nunez · November 2nd, 2006, 06:22 PM

I should have posted another 2 seconds of video- you'd see the video suddenly stops shaking and is silky smooth causing me to believe the "IS" kicked in or achieved the frequency necessary to counter a shaky-hands movement- this would prove the movement is not me but rather a camera issue~ how could I stop being shakey so suddenly?

I'm hoping perhaps a few intial units are suffering from this "IS" issue and hope it doesn't appear on the new XH series of Canon's due out soon.

Luis A. Diaz · November 2nd, 2006, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Nunez

Looks like others are having an issue with this as well. I hope this doesn't happen with the A1.

Steve:
I see exactly what you mean by shimmering, I have not seen it with my handheld shots with the Is on but maybe I'll pay more attention to it.
Remember they suggest turning IS off if you mount the corder on a a tripod or any other support.

I assume by your description you are shooting handheld with IS on.
Thanks,
Luis

Aanarav Sareen · November 2nd, 2006, 09:26 PM

Steve,
I don't see the problem. However, it doesn't mean that its not there. Any specific procedure for reproducing this?

- Aanarav

Steve Nunez · November 2nd, 2006, 10:10 PM

Umm- that's a tuff one- what I did was run the camera over the tail section for some b-roll....I noticed the shimmy when I viewed at full HDV res- it was annoying- I then scrutinized some other clips and saw it rear up a few times...

...I don't want to start negativity over this cam- just reporting what I found and inquiring as to wether others had found or experienced this as well. Douglas Spotted Eagle had commented on an earlier thread about this "anamoly" so I'm willing to bet there is something going on here- at the very least with some early units.

I'm a Canon fan and have been for awhile. For what it's worth- I think the HV10 is an awesome camera and produces outstanding video- it's just the shimmy thing that was "interesting"...if tests/opinions with the XH A1 are as fantastic as I imagine they will be- I'll own one of those too!

(I'm not a pro- just a consumer who likes video and pays cash out of pocket with no real return on these purchases other than the satisfacton of useage.)

Meryem Ersoz · November 2nd, 2006, 10:11 PM

my HV10 does not do this...but i have kept it exclusively on a stabilizer of some sort with OIS off...

Hawood Giles · November 2nd, 2006, 10:12 PM

To Steve and those, who experience "shakiness" with the HV10, I'm wondering if this problem appears exclusively in a computer-rendered file; or in RAW video played back thru TV; or in fully rendered footage burned to DVD? Or in all three stages of playback? Aside from the rare "hesitation" anomaly that I described earlier, my HV10 surprisingly eliminates "shakiness" in segments I expected to appear shaky, while filming.

I've filmed over three hours of footage with my HV10, and whether OIS is ON, or OFF --- I have never seen any "shakiness" ... only the rare "hesitation" problem mentioned earlier. Since my earlier post, I checked the rendered EVO file containing the "hesitation" anomaly, and --- no hesitation occurs when playing back this segment on the computer. Consequently, the hesitation problem must originate during the burning to DVD stage, or in actual playback of HD-DVD on my Toshiba HD-A1 High Definition player.

VM/HDG

Colin Gould · November 2nd, 2006, 11:24 PM

I've only filmed hand-held w/ OIS on, so far, and haven't seen any shimmering or shaking. I filmed some airplanes at a lake, panning to follow the planes, which meant that sometimes a light pole or person or boat mast etc. panned quickly across the screen (often in front of the airplane focal target.) I don't recall the OIS getting too confused, nor even the auto-focus, surprisingly (nor any "hesitation" mentioned above. I have noticed that CRT HDTV viewing is MUCH smoother/silkier than watching PC captured video, esp if it's not de-interlaced. I haven't tried any DVD burns.)
I did get a few cases where I hit the OIS limits following the planes, but other pans didn't show it too much.

I tried taking some pictures in my car, worked decently, but still had some movement of course... I tried stabilizing on the dash/wheel, and interestingly I got some vibration transmitted to the camera, it was worse than handheld.

May be a case of some batches had issues w/ the gyro or lens, or certain conditions confused it? (I'd think the skydiving is a pretty extreme condition!!, lots of vibration, not too surprised that killed the IS..? but mountain climbing should have been ok...)

I can't find a manufacturing date on the camera, to compare batches... S/N is 5522803xxxxx... ?

November 2nd, 2006, 03:25 PM	#1
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Possible flaw w/HV10? Hey guys- I've noticed my particular HV10 does a weird shimmer/shake when IS is supposedly engaged causing a nasty vibration to the footage- has anyone else had this occur? I am going to try to get some video up, showing this for scrutiny- in the meantime has anyone else seen this happen? My guess is that whatever stabilization is supposed to be going on sorta "revs up" in anticipation of shake and actually causes shaky video itself....is there a mechanical gyro in the camera? The footage evetually evens out but this seems like a flaw in the implimentation of IS. Footage here: http://stevenunez.com/hosted/hv10tremble.mov Let it load as it's NOT a progressive download- it's under 3mb so wait a short bit. The curious thing is that mere seconds later the trembling disappears......but it definitely starts again if you stop recording and resume later...seems like the IS is initially overcompensating or something. Note: I'm a freehand airbrush artist and I have steadier hands than the average guy- so that shake you see isn't me- the IS was definitely on! __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

November 2nd, 2006, 03:58 PM	#3
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Thanks. It's actually the tail section- here's what it looks like: http://stevenunez.com/cycles/SinCity/DSCF0073.jpg (Here's the tank <showing off>) http://stevenunez.com/cycles/SinCity/DSCF0035.jpg __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

November 2nd, 2006, 04:06 PM	#5
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Could be--- I hope it's an isolated case (bad for me but good for everyone else.) __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

November 2nd, 2006, 04:45 PM	#7
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Looks like others are having an issue with this as well. I hope this doesn't happen with the A1. __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

November 2nd, 2006, 06:12 PM	#8
Hawood Giles Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Coshocton, Ohio USA Posts: 29	HV10 jerkiness? No jerking and trembling going on here with my HV10. At least not of the kind as seen in the Steve Nunez mov file. The Nunez clip appears more like typical handheld shaking, rather than a flaw with OIS. That said, I have experienced a different kind of motion anomaly, which occurs when a subject abruptly appears in a scene, while panning. Example: an unintended person, vehicle, or moving object trespasses across the scene being filmed. Not always, but occasionally, the trespasser's motion becomes stuck for a split second, and then regains it's pace. The momentary pause appears to affect ONLY the fast-moving trespasser, and not other moving objects in the scene. Presently, I'm uncertain as to whether this rare motion anomaly originates during filming, during editing, during burning to HD-DVD, or during playback of HD-DVD edited/burned footage. Meaning that I've never played back raw video from my HV10 on my HD TV.; I've only played back fully edited footage (in HD-DVD format) burned to a DVD disk. Inasmuch as I've seen similar "hesitation" in commercially-produced HD-DVD movies, I'm tentatively inclined to eliminate the HV10 as the cause of this RARE anomaly. Note: Since I never film hand-held (always use a Monopod with OIS OFF); more reason for me to doubt that OIS is the cause of "jerkiness" or other motion anomaly with the HV10. I welcome any views that agree with, or differ from my TENTATIVE analysis. VM/HDG

November 2nd, 2006, 04:03 PM	#4
Even Solberg Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 106	Mine works fine. Could be you have a troublesome copy, perhaps?

November 2nd, 2006, 04:39 PM	#6
Lee Wilson Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 376	I think 'Douglas Spotted Eagle' mentions this in the following thread. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=78228 I have not seen this 'shaking' thing on my HV10 (PAL version).

November 2nd, 2006, 06:22 PM	#9
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	I should have posted another 2 seconds of video- you'd see the video suddenly stops shaking and is silky smooth causing me to believe the "IS" kicked in or achieved the frequency necessary to counter a shaky-hands movement- this would prove the movement is not me but rather a camera issue~ how could I stop being shakey so suddenly? I'm hoping perhaps a few intial units are suffering from this "IS" issue and hope it doesn't appear on the new XH series of Canon's due out soon. __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

November 2nd, 2006, 09:26 PM	#11
Aanarav Sareen Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: NJ, US Posts: 183	Steve, I don't see the problem. However, it doesn't mean that its not there. Any specific procedure for reproducing this? - Aanarav __________________ http://www.sareen.tv

November 2nd, 2006, 10:10 PM	#12
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Umm- that's a tuff one- what I did was run the camera over the tail section for some b-roll....I noticed the shimmy when I viewed at full HDV res- it was annoying- I then scrutinized some other clips and saw it rear up a few times... ...I don't want to start negativity over this cam- just reporting what I found and inquiring as to wether others had found or experienced this as well. Douglas Spotted Eagle had commented on an earlier thread about this "anamoly" so I'm willing to bet there is something going on here- at the very least with some early units. I'm a Canon fan and have been for awhile. For what it's worth- I think the HV10 is an awesome camera and produces outstanding video- it's just the shimmy thing that was "interesting"...if tests/opinions with the XH A1 are as fantastic as I imagine they will be- I'll own one of those too! (I'm not a pro- just a consumer who likes video and pays cash out of pocket with no real return on these purchases other than the satisfacton of useage.) __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

November 2nd, 2006, 10:11 PM	#13
Meryem Ersoz Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 3,015	my HV10 does not do this...but i have kept it exclusively on a stabilizer of some sort with OIS off...

November 2nd, 2006, 10:12 PM	#14
Hawood Giles Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Coshocton, Ohio USA Posts: 29	HV10 "shakiness" --- at what stage does it occur? To Steve and those, who experience "shakiness" with the HV10, I'm wondering if this problem appears exclusively in a computer-rendered file; or in RAW video played back thru TV; or in fully rendered footage burned to DVD? Or in all three stages of playback? Aside from the rare "hesitation" anomaly that I described earlier, my HV10 surprisingly eliminates "shakiness" in segments I expected to appear shaky, while filming. I've filmed over three hours of footage with my HV10, and whether OIS is ON, or OFF --- I have never seen any "shakiness" ... only the rare "hesitation" problem mentioned earlier. Since my earlier post, I checked the rendered EVO file containing the "hesitation" anomaly, and --- no hesitation occurs when playing back this segment on the computer. Consequently, the hesitation problem must originate during the burning to DVD stage, or in actual playback of HD-DVD on my Toshiba HD-A1 High Definition player. VM/HDG

November 2nd, 2006, 11:24 PM	#15
Colin Gould Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Foster City, CA Posts: 123	I've only filmed hand-held w/ OIS on, so far, and haven't seen any shimmering or shaking. I filmed some airplanes at a lake, panning to follow the planes, which meant that sometimes a light pole or person or boat mast etc. panned quickly across the screen (often in front of the airplane focal target.) I don't recall the OIS getting too confused, nor even the auto-focus, surprisingly (nor any "hesitation" mentioned above. I have noticed that CRT HDTV viewing is MUCH smoother/silkier than watching PC captured video, esp if it's not de-interlaced. I haven't tried any DVD burns.) I did get a few cases where I hit the OIS limits following the planes, but other pans didn't show it too much. I tried taking some pictures in my car, worked decently, but still had some movement of course... I tried stabilizing on the dash/wheel, and interestingly I got some vibration transmitted to the camera, it was worse than handheld. May be a case of some batches had issues w/ the gyro or lens, or certain conditions confused it? (I'd think the skydiving is a pretty extreme condition!!, lots of vibration, not too surprised that killed the IS..? but mountain climbing should have been ok...) I can't find a manufacturing date on the camera, to compare batches... S/N is 5522803xxxxx... ?