My HV10 just arrived... at DVinfo.net

Cody Lucido · September 20th, 2006, 03:58 PM

Man this things is tiny.

I will shoot some footage soon anybody have a lead as to where I can post it and what format you would like to see?

Wes Vasher · September 20th, 2006, 06:42 PM

Cody, can you take some pictures to show the size? Do you have another camcorder you can sit it next to?

Cody Lucido · September 20th, 2006, 07:33 PM

Sure. Here is a link to my Flickr page with a set of cheesy photos of the HV10

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lucido/...7594293148520/

In some photos the HV10 is sitting next to my iMac and my older Sony TRV-50. Oh yeah, that is my tripod plate from the Bogen 503 on the bottom.

I can't stress the tiny factor enough.

I have some decent clips showing the amazing new AF. What format would people like? Currently they are Quicktime HDV.

Wes Vasher · September 20th, 2006, 08:25 PM

Native MPEG-2 (.m2t) is the best as there is no re-compression. Apple HDV is probably the intermediate codec (i could be wrong) which is okay but will take away a little quality from the original version.

Great pictures Cody, thanks. That sucker is small!

Can you get a tape in and out with the tripod plate on there or do you have to remove it?

Cody Lucido · September 20th, 2006, 08:53 PM

You have to take the tripod plate off to change tape and to change the battery.

Does this site host video clips? If not is there a service you recommend to host the clips?

Wes Vasher · September 20th, 2006, 09:19 PM

Shoot an Email or PM to Chris Hurd who runs the site. He hosts clips for the good of mankind.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/member.php?u=3

Cody Lucido · September 21st, 2006, 04:20 PM

I just uploaded some clips thanks to Chris Hurd.

They are :

Test003_IAF.m2t - Shows how super fast the new focusing is. 2-3 Frames. - Program

Test007_bokeh.m2t - Sorry about the jerky pan (darn 503). This does show off the nice bokeh this camera can achieve. - A/V 2.8

Test009_LowLight.m2t - A quick zoom of my DVD library - A/V 2.8. One halogen track light as key. Shows noise level in low light.

I will add the links to this email when I get them.

Cheers!

Colin Gould · September 21st, 2006, 04:39 PM

Looks like files are under:
http://media.dvinfo.net/canonhv10/

Thanks Cody!

PS nice movies :)

Cody Lucido · September 21st, 2006, 05:14 PM

Thanks Colin.

I do want to post a serious concern I am having about this camera.

It is very important for me to be able to load from tape via firewire. Same workflow as DV. I am not sure why, but when I create an EDL to ingest a tape, if the clips are to close to each other I get an error. If I spread them apart, this isnt a problem as much. But the tape loses time code all the time and it concerns me. Is this the early pains of HDV editing or is it a bad build quality on the camera. I am loading with FCP 5.1 on an intel iMac. 2GB RAM. I never experience this with dv on my Sony.

Can anybody address this? I might be sending it back as I really wanted to also use it as a deck. I will say this, I used Panasonic Master tape not an "HD" tape, so that might be the problem? I will go get an HD tape tomorrow and see if the problem continues.

Meryem Ersoz · September 21st, 2006, 06:40 PM

use the "end search" button (see p. 29 in your manual) to avoid broken time code. it will back the tape up a few seconds over your last take. make sure you have adequate handles on the ends of your takes so you don't tape over the important material. canon's lower end cameras don't do this automatically for you, although my more feature-rich XL2 does (even the GL2 has the "end search" feature). you just have to get used to pushing it after each take.

Cody Lucido · September 21st, 2006, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meryem Ersoz

use the "end search" button (see p. 29 in your manual) to avoid broken time code. it will back the tape up a few seconds over your last take. make sure you have adequate handles on the ends of your takes so you don't tape over the important material. canon's lower end cameras don't do this automatically for you, although my more feature-rich XL2 does (even the GL2 has the "end search" feature). you just have to get used to pushing it after each take.

Thanks Merym, but this was time code it was dropping during an extended take I was doing of clouds.

The time code wasn't broken on the tape, it was just having trouble when playing back through firewire. It would break in different spots each time. I ended up doing a "capture now" and got what I needed.

Is this because HDV is still in it's infancy? Or is it a cheap transport system on th HV10? Anybody with practical experience with this?

Colin Gould · September 21st, 2006, 07:09 PM

Even though I don't really use timecode too much (no batch capture- too hard on tape)- I just capture large sections from a point (often beginning), and split by scene cut/timestamp, in Ulead MSPro.
That said, for my DV tapes, I always "blackstriped" them to lay down timecode and blackscreen (just left the lens cap on.) My Optura didn't have "end search" feature, but I usually queued it up if I'd been moving the tape around.

However, for the HV10, 1) the lens cover automatically opens, no more "black" screen :) , and so far it's been good to keep timecode... even after power-off between shots etc.

2) I'm also not sure what happens to the MPEG2 gop stream, to have "overlayed" recordings, eg if I leave a blackstriped (old) spot in between new shots... not sure if it would confuse the editor or camera... also not sure if two recording passes over the DV tape might cause more data loss/dropouts , for higher-demand MPG2 stream? vs DV?

Also, at least w/ MSpro8, all the DV metadata functions (DV scene scan/logger, auto split-by-scene-cut, shot timestamp display), does NOT function w/ the MPG2 stream even though the data is there (actually, when I set the HV10 to DV lock eg down-rezzed to DV format/SD size, all the DV control/metadata works again.)

I don't know how FCP does captures or what it requires, but you might try a "blackstripe" first...
so far for this type of metadata capture issue, I think it's the software having incomplete support for (new) HDV... some users have reported the same MSPro issues above for Sony HC* cameras, so it's not just the Canon.

Thomas Smet · September 21st, 2006, 07:16 PM

dude! Red Dwarf DVD's. Very nice.

Wes Vasher · September 21st, 2006, 07:45 PM

So when you play the tape back in the camera does the timecode work fine, as in the numbers displayed on the LCD? And it only breaks when capturing over FireWire? You haven't had an issue capturing DV over FireWire to the same computer? Intel iMacs are farely new so there could be some issue with the Apple drivers. Do you have another computer, Mac or PC to try a capture on?

Is it just on the batch capture? "Capture Now" works fine?

I capture my DV like Colin does, big files. I actually use BTV Pro to capture even though I edit in FCP because I like the simplicity of BTV's interface.

Just checked out your clips. The vertical banding in the dark cassette shot is evident, just like that other night show posted with the white car. Wow, that focus really changes quick. Great shots. The clarity is really great.

Jerry Jones · September 21st, 2006, 08:54 PM

But didn't CANON's engineers forget to include an external microphone input?

The microphone input is a must for me.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

September 20th, 2006, 03:58 PM	#1
Cody Lucido Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 206	My HV10 just arrived... Man this things is tiny. I will shoot some footage soon anybody have a lead as to where I can post it and what format you would like to see?

September 21st, 2006, 04:20 PM	#7
Cody Lucido Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 206	Test Footage uploaded I just uploaded some clips thanks to Chris Hurd. They are : Test003_IAF.m2t - Shows how super fast the new focusing is. 2-3 Frames. - Program Test007_bokeh.m2t - Sorry about the jerky pan (darn 503). This does show off the nice bokeh this camera can achieve. - A/V 2.8 Test009_LowLight.m2t - A quick zoom of my DVD library - A/V 2.8. One halogen track light as key. Shows noise level in low light. I will add the links to this email when I get them. Cheers! Last edited by Cody Lucido; September 21st, 2006 at 05:14 PM.

September 21st, 2006, 05:14 PM	#9
Cody Lucido Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 206	Thanks Colin. I do want to post a serious concern I am having about this camera. It is very important for me to be able to load from tape via firewire. Same workflow as DV. I am not sure why, but when I create an EDL to ingest a tape, if the clips are to close to each other I get an error. If I spread them apart, this isnt a problem as much. But the tape loses time code all the time and it concerns me. Is this the early pains of HDV editing or is it a bad build quality on the camera. I am loading with FCP 5.1 on an intel iMac. 2GB RAM. I never experience this with dv on my Sony. Can anybody address this? I might be sending it back as I really wanted to also use it as a deck. I will say this, I used Panasonic Master tape not an "HD" tape, so that might be the problem? I will go get an HD tape tomorrow and see if the problem continues. Last edited by Cody Lucido; September 21st, 2006 at 06:08 PM.

September 20th, 2006, 06:42 PM	#2
Wes Vasher Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 440	Cody, can you take some pictures to show the size? Do you have another camcorder you can sit it next to?

September 20th, 2006, 07:33 PM	#3
Cody Lucido Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 206	Sure. Here is a link to my Flickr page with a set of cheesy photos of the HV10 http://www.flickr.com/photos/lucido/...7594293148520/ In some photos the HV10 is sitting next to my iMac and my older Sony TRV-50. Oh yeah, that is my tripod plate from the Bogen 503 on the bottom. I can't stress the tiny factor enough. I have some decent clips showing the amazing new AF. What format would people like? Currently they are Quicktime HDV.

September 20th, 2006, 08:25 PM	#4
Wes Vasher Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 440	Native MPEG-2 (.m2t) is the best as there is no re-compression. Apple HDV is probably the intermediate codec (i could be wrong) which is okay but will take away a little quality from the original version. Great pictures Cody, thanks. That sucker is small! Can you get a tape in and out with the tripod plate on there or do you have to remove it?

September 20th, 2006, 08:53 PM	#5
Cody Lucido Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 206	You have to take the tripod plate off to change tape and to change the battery. Does this site host video clips? If not is there a service you recommend to host the clips?

September 20th, 2006, 09:19 PM	#6
Wes Vasher Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 440	Shoot an Email or PM to Chris Hurd who runs the site. He hosts clips for the good of mankind. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/member.php?u=3

September 21st, 2006, 04:39 PM	#8
Colin Gould Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Foster City, CA Posts: 123	Looks like files are under: http://media.dvinfo.net/canonhv10/ Thanks Cody! PS nice movies :)

September 21st, 2006, 06:40 PM	#10
Meryem Ersoz Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 3,015	use the "end search" button (see p. 29 in your manual) to avoid broken time code. it will back the tape up a few seconds over your last take. make sure you have adequate handles on the ends of your takes so you don't tape over the important material. canon's lower end cameras don't do this automatically for you, although my more feature-rich XL2 does (even the GL2 has the "end search" feature). you just have to get used to pushing it after each take.

September 21st, 2006, 07:09 PM	#12
Colin Gould Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Foster City, CA Posts: 123	Even though I don't really use timecode too much (no batch capture- too hard on tape)- I just capture large sections from a point (often beginning), and split by scene cut/timestamp, in Ulead MSPro. That said, for my DV tapes, I always "blackstriped" them to lay down timecode and blackscreen (just left the lens cap on.) My Optura didn't have "end search" feature, but I usually queued it up if I'd been moving the tape around. However, for the HV10, 1) the lens cover automatically opens, no more "black" screen :) , and so far it's been good to keep timecode... even after power-off between shots etc. 2) I'm also not sure what happens to the MPEG2 gop stream, to have "overlayed" recordings, eg if I leave a blackstriped (old) spot in between new shots... not sure if it would confuse the editor or camera... also not sure if two recording passes over the DV tape might cause more data loss/dropouts , for higher-demand MPG2 stream? vs DV? Also, at least w/ MSpro8, all the DV metadata functions (DV scene scan/logger, auto split-by-scene-cut, shot timestamp display), does NOT function w/ the MPG2 stream even though the data is there (actually, when I set the HV10 to DV lock eg down-rezzed to DV format/SD size, all the DV control/metadata works again.) I don't know how FCP does captures or what it requires, but you might try a "blackstripe" first... so far for this type of metadata capture issue, I think it's the software having incomplete support for (new) HDV... some users have reported the same MSPro issues above for Sony HC* cameras, so it's not just the Canon.

September 21st, 2006, 07:16 PM	#13
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	dude! Red Dwarf DVD's. Very nice.

September 21st, 2006, 07:45 PM	#14
Wes Vasher Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 440	So when you play the tape back in the camera does the timecode work fine, as in the numbers displayed on the LCD? And it only breaks when capturing over FireWire? You haven't had an issue capturing DV over FireWire to the same computer? Intel iMacs are farely new so there could be some issue with the Apple drivers. Do you have another computer, Mac or PC to try a capture on? Is it just on the batch capture? "Capture Now" works fine? I capture my DV like Colin does, big files. I actually use BTV Pro to capture even though I edit in FCP because I like the simplicity of BTV's interface. Just checked out your clips. The vertical banding in the dark cassette shot is evident, just like that other night show posted with the white car. Wow, that focus really changes quick. Great shots. The clarity is really great.

September 21st, 2006, 08:54 PM	#15
Jerry Jones Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Boise, Idaho Posts: 54	But didn't CANON's engineers forget to include an external microphone input? The microphone input is a must for me. Jerry Jones http://www.jonesgroup.net