Quick feedback plus downloadable video clips

Wes Vasher · September 20th, 2006, 07:06 PM

Great post Colin, very interesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin Gould

The camera sees 1920x1080, but it records/HDV is only 1440x1080. (was 810 a typo?)

QuickTime player shows the same on my computer (1440x810), however MPEG Streamclip says it is 1440x1080. Lee, please don't get me started on QuickTime player. Please. Must hold myself down.

Shawn Kimmel · September 20th, 2006, 07:10 PM

Anyone else seeing dark vertical lines in the night scene? I'm on a Macbook with a 1280 x 800 screen, so perhaps the resizing is messing something up?

Kindest regards,

Shawn

____________________________
Shawn Kimmel
Forever on DVD
http://www.foreverondvd.com

Wes Vasher · September 20th, 2006, 07:18 PM

I'm getting the same thing Shawn, most visable at the beginning of the clip. Reminds me of going to the local theater which runs really old used film prints... kind of adds character right?

Just watched the flower footage. My jaw is on the floor. Highlights are clipping like it's going out of style but that's to be expected I think. There's a lot of detail in the darks.

Lee Wilson · September 20th, 2006, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin Gould

The camera sees 1920x1080, but it records/HDV is only 1440x1080. (was 810 a typo?)

No, 1440*810 (eight-one-zero) is how it opens up in QT Pro with all the fields screwed up ?? P.S. 1440*810 is 16:9 so maybe QT is attempting something clever on our behalf ? (I really wish it wouldn't!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin Gould

I too find VLC has been the best playback so far, will play m2t transport files as well.
Looks great on my Viewsonic 20"widescreen...

You should see it on my 23" Apple Cinema Display (1920*1200) your footage looks stunning, easily better than any sample I have downloaded in my hunt to buy a HD camera. For the first time ever my girlfriend actually came over to my computer and said 'wow that's fantastic, did you do it" - (to which I replied - "of course") ;-)

I couldn't see any compression artifacts even though you chose pretty busy (pixel wise) scenes ??

Lee Wilson · September 20th, 2006, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn Kimmel

Anyone else seeing dark vertical lines in the night scene? I'm on a Macbook with a 1280 x 800 screen, so perhaps the resizing is messing something up?

Yup! I see 'em, fine vertical lines.

Colin Gould · September 21st, 2006, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Wilson

You should see it on my 23" Apple Cinema Display (1920*1200) your footage looks stunning, easily better than any sample I have downloaded in my hunt to buy a HD camera. For the first time ever my girlfriend actually came over to my computer and said 'wow that's fantastic, did you do it" - (to which I replied - "of course") ;-)

I couldn't see any compression artifacts even though you chose pretty busy (pixel wise) scenes ??

<blush> Thanks for the kudos.
Glad to help make the GF happy w/ techie toys :) (and yeah, that display should make ANYTHING look good !)
Amazing how my little front garden can look great w/ HD macro!

All, I've uploaded a few more shorter clips- all are ~10secs/30mb :
one pretty eye candy,
one should address compression artifacts (will let you guys look frame-by-frame :) ),
and one just fun and cool insectia (short , 2secs.)
(Chris, if any of this goes over your size/amount limit, choose some to delete for now, thanks!)

- http://media.dvinfo.net/canonxh/cgHV...ineseCharm.mpg
Colorful Chinese hanging charm, w/ bright colors; this is indoors evening, under 5x 19W(60w equiv) CFL lights (5x900 lumens, no idea re lux, decently bright), manually white balanced.

- http://media.dvinfo.net/canonxh/cgHV10_sunsetTrees.mpg
Pre-sunset "glow" on wind-blown tree leaves; nice to see how well it handles focus for the very complex & dynamic scene (only time it lost it was when I panned/zoomed a bit), plus subtle color contrasts of blue sky, green leaves, and golden sunset tinting...
This tree is about... 30' tall? (to give an idea of zoom/distance)...
Pretty sure this was on auto setting for everything...

- http://media.dvinfo.net/canonxh/cgHV10_duskFly.mpg
Fun, short (2sec/8mb) closeup shot of a shiny green fly; this was also near sunset (7pm), after the tree shot. Best to play in VLC w/ playlist repeat on.
My attempt at Discovery Channel bug art :) (He was a very model actor!)

A framegrab JPG is here: (not sure why aspect got off)
http://media.dvinfo.net/canonxh/duskfly.jpg

Enjoy!

Wes Vasher · September 21st, 2006, 05:43 AM

Colin, you're gonna make that fly a star!

The fly is a great shot, you can really admire the beauty of that ugly fly. :) And the leaves shot also is a great test for the MPEG2 encoder, you can actually finally see artifacts, but they aren't obvious.

Colin Gould · September 28th, 2006, 11:04 PM

Back from weekend trip and shoot w/ the camcorder, very happy except w/ the battery life :( (didn't have time to buy BP315).

The lighting and conditions were great, clear air, but I did not have my tripod (too hard w/ planes flying all around and overhead, and following after kids)...
the OIS worked very well, not too much juddering from hitting the limits... and I held pretty tight zooms. Even w/ digital zoom , shots held decently steady. Certainly as good as my Optura Pi OIS, but at tighter zoom.

The horizon/level marker was very helpful keeping "on-the-run" shots even.

The autofocus again held up amazingly well, nearly 40mins of flying shots, only lost focus a few times, on the farthest/tiniest plane shots.. even despite frequent digital zoom, constant panning, and often close foreground items (dock/light poles etc) getting into the shot- it still locked in quickly, and held the planes in focus.

The detail and clarity and colors were just stunning on playback via component to 55" RP-CRT HDTV. I haven't seen other HD camcorders (eg HC3, FX1) to compare, but, it looked nearly as crisp as my close-up flowers stuff earlier. Bright solid colors, gorgeous chrome glints and highlights... Surprisingly clear was the background hills (tan grass and oaks) across the other side of the lake.
40x Digital zoom (as shown by the stills below) was surprisingly clear and "unpixelated", just seemed a bit "wobblier" or out of focus sometimes; certainly still better than DV resolution.

I concur that one downside of the camera is it tends to over-expose just a few steps... I usually have any whitish or light colors zebra out... for light objects I sometimes had to set exposure lock and take it down a few notches. It would be nice to also have an "exposure offset" mode, to let the camera still adjust exposure, but a few steps below what auto would use. Otherwise exposure lock is only helpful for fixed lighting scenes, unless you adjust w/ the pushdial as you film, ugh.

I was more used to the small/somewhat awkward ergonomics than before, felt more natural in my hand now, but it was still difficult to tweak and adjust the manual settings w/ the tiny, slightly misplaced buttons, especially during a shot. This may still be the biggest downside of the camera (unless you count the mic input. Audio sounded fine to me but I'm just doing scenic/home movie type shots.)

Not sure if still more space to upload some sample videos, most shots are pretty long..
.
but here are some still shots, all 2MP 16:9 (some simultaneous w/ video, some "still mode" to card)... most of these are full "auto" mode...

still shot of SF Golden Gate bridge:
http://media.dvinfo.net/canonxh/IMG_0151.JPG

SF skyline: (some digital zoom)
http://media.dvinfo.net/canonxh/IMG_0154.JPG

and Alcatraz (from north end of bridge; note this is near full digital 40x zoom;
not sure if some visible "wobblies" are from the dig zoom, or atmospherics, or both- but certainly doesn't looke "pixelated" like normal dig zoom!)
http://media.dvinfo.net/canonxh/IMG_0155.JPG

Gorgeous still shot of floatplane on lake: nice grey shading..
http://media.dvinfo.net/canonxh/IMG_0168.JPG

Complex detail & lighting shot, ducks in shade w/ grass in light:
http://media.dvinfo.net/canonxh/IMG_0178.JPG

Some "simultaneous" video still shots, w/ "sunset" P-AE Scene mode (lower light and "orange" color tint)
full dig zoom; note still detail on silhouetted ridgeline, and faint but visible color detail onplane and background hillside, despite low ambient light and shooting near-direct into bright sunrise:
http://media.dvinfo.net/canonxh/IMG_0258.JPG

wider-angle , direct-into sunrise shot:
http://media.dvinfo.net/canonxh/IMG_0260.JPG

Dave Ferdinand · September 29th, 2006, 01:26 AM

Again, great stuff.

Do you feel that the still mode shots are much superior to HDV grabs in this camera, like it happens with most video cameras with still photo mode?

Colin Gould · September 29th, 2006, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Ferdinand

Again, great stuff.

Do you feel that the still mode shots are much superior to HDV grabs in this camera, like it happens with most video cameras with still photo mode?

For well-lit stuff, no, the stills are almost identical- as I said, I can't easily tell (except from memory) which of the above were simultaneous grabs vs actual still-mode shots. That said, the manual and common sense I think says the still mode is best for stills (more options for focus/lighting, etc.)... but it's hard to tell :)

The obvious exception is w/ poor indoor lighting, the simultaneous grabs have MUCH more noise than the video (or a regular still shot.) I had some examples here-
here is still shot, across a room:
http://media.dvinfo.net/canonxh/CanonHV10_IMG_0102.JPG
here is same, simult video grab: http://media.dvinfo.net/canonxh/Cano...till_Noisy.JPG

Dave Ferdinand · September 29th, 2006, 08:55 PM

Thanks. Wow, that indoors sample does show a lot more noise on the video grab. I guess if you're thinking of doing something serious with this camera you probably need to think of using high key lighting for every shot.

Colin Gould · September 29th, 2006, 10:31 PM

Interestingly enough, the video grabs look fine if you do them on playback, of the same clip, vs simultaneous during recording. Must be something about doubling/different access off the imaging chip or...

btw, the video camera does much better in low light, than the still mode does... still mode has viewfinder image dark, and wants the flash, whereas looks OK (but some noise) in video.

Ed Khang · June 18th, 2007, 02:31 AM

Colin, thanks so much for pointing me to this thread.

If your streetlight cars video is the worst it gets, I'm absolutely sold on the HV10. I was expecting much worse.

And your short video of the Chinese lantern indoors really sells me. My craptastic Sony HC26 can't even handle that type of lighting.

-Ed

September 20th, 2006, 07:10 PM	#17
Shawn Kimmel Tourist Join Date: May 2005 Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada Posts: 3	Vertical Lines in night scene? Anyone else seeing dark vertical lines in the night scene? I'm on a Macbook with a 1280 x 800 screen, so perhaps the resizing is messing something up? Kindest regards, Shawn ____________________________ Shawn Kimmel Forever on DVD http://www.foreverondvd.com

September 21st, 2006, 05:43 AM	#22
Wes Vasher Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 440	Colin, you're gonna make that fly a star! The fly is a great shot, you can really admire the beauty of that ugly fly. :) And the leaves shot also is a great test for the MPEG2 encoder, you can actually finally see artifacts, but they aren't obvious. Last edited by Wes Vasher; September 21st, 2006 at 07:03 AM.

September 28th, 2006, 11:04 PM	#23
Colin Gould Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Foster City, CA Posts: 123	more feedback from weekend shoot Back from weekend trip and shoot w/ the camcorder, very happy except w/ the battery life :( (didn't have time to buy BP315). The lighting and conditions were great, clear air, but I did not have my tripod (too hard w/ planes flying all around and overhead, and following after kids)... the OIS worked very well, not too much juddering from hitting the limits... and I held pretty tight zooms. Even w/ digital zoom , shots held decently steady. Certainly as good as my Optura Pi OIS, but at tighter zoom. The horizon/level marker was very helpful keeping "on-the-run" shots even. The autofocus again held up amazingly well, nearly 40mins of flying shots, only lost focus a few times, on the farthest/tiniest plane shots.. even despite frequent digital zoom, constant panning, and often close foreground items (dock/light poles etc) getting into the shot- it still locked in quickly, and held the planes in focus. The detail and clarity and colors were just stunning on playback via component to 55" RP-CRT HDTV. I haven't seen other HD camcorders (eg HC3, FX1) to compare, but, it looked nearly as crisp as my close-up flowers stuff earlier. Bright solid colors, gorgeous chrome glints and highlights... Surprisingly clear was the background hills (tan grass and oaks) across the other side of the lake. 40x Digital zoom (as shown by the stills below) was surprisingly clear and "unpixelated", just seemed a bit "wobblier" or out of focus sometimes; certainly still better than DV resolution. I concur that one downside of the camera is it tends to over-expose just a few steps... I usually have any whitish or light colors zebra out... for light objects I sometimes had to set exposure lock and take it down a few notches. It would be nice to also have an "exposure offset" mode, to let the camera still adjust exposure, but a few steps below what auto would use. Otherwise exposure lock is only helpful for fixed lighting scenes, unless you adjust w/ the pushdial as you film, ugh. I was more used to the small/somewhat awkward ergonomics than before, felt more natural in my hand now, but it was still difficult to tweak and adjust the manual settings w/ the tiny, slightly misplaced buttons, especially during a shot. This may still be the biggest downside of the camera (unless you count the mic input. Audio sounded fine to me but I'm just doing scenic/home movie type shots.) Not sure if still more space to upload some sample videos, most shots are pretty long.. . but here are some still shots, all 2MP 16:9 (some simultaneous w/ video, some "still mode" to card)... most of these are full "auto" mode... still shot of SF Golden Gate bridge: http://media.dvinfo.net/canonxh/IMG_0151.JPG SF skyline: (some digital zoom) http://media.dvinfo.net/canonxh/IMG_0154.JPG and Alcatraz (from north end of bridge; note this is near full digital 40x zoom; not sure if some visible "wobblies" are from the dig zoom, or atmospherics, or both- but certainly doesn't looke "pixelated" like normal dig zoom!) http://media.dvinfo.net/canonxh/IMG_0155.JPG Gorgeous still shot of floatplane on lake: nice grey shading.. http://media.dvinfo.net/canonxh/IMG_0168.JPG Complex detail & lighting shot, ducks in shade w/ grass in light: http://media.dvinfo.net/canonxh/IMG_0178.JPG Some "simultaneous" video still shots, w/ "sunset" P-AE Scene mode (lower light and "orange" color tint) full dig zoom; note still detail on silhouetted ridgeline, and faint but visible color detail onplane and background hillside, despite low ambient light and shooting near-direct into bright sunrise: http://media.dvinfo.net/canonxh/IMG_0258.JPG wider-angle , direct-into sunrise shot: http://media.dvinfo.net/canonxh/IMG_0260.JPG

September 29th, 2006, 01:26 AM	#24
Dave Ferdinand Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 359	Again, great stuff. Do you feel that the still mode shots are much superior to HDV grabs in this camera, like it happens with most video cameras with still photo mode? __________________ Do or do not, there is no try.

September 29th, 2006, 08:55 PM	#26
Dave Ferdinand Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 359	Thanks. Wow, that indoors sample does show a lot more noise on the video grab. I guess if you're thinking of doing something serious with this camera you probably need to think of using high key lighting for every shot. __________________ Do or do not, there is no try.

September 20th, 2006, 07:18 PM	#18
Wes Vasher Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 440	I'm getting the same thing Shawn, most visable at the beginning of the clip. Reminds me of going to the local theater which runs really old used film prints... kind of adds character right? Just watched the flower footage. My jaw is on the floor. Highlights are clipping like it's going out of style but that's to be expected I think. There's a lot of detail in the darks.

September 29th, 2006, 10:31 PM	#27
Colin Gould Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Foster City, CA Posts: 123	Interestingly enough, the video grabs look fine if you do them on playback, of the same clip, vs simultaneous during recording. Must be something about doubling/different access off the imaging chip or... btw, the video camera does much better in low light, than the still mode does... still mode has viewfinder image dark, and wants the flash, whereas looks OK (but some noise) in video.

June 18th, 2007, 02:31 AM	#28
Ed Khang Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 32	Colin, thanks so much for pointing me to this thread. If your streetlight cars video is the worst it gets, I'm absolutely sold on the HV10. I was expecting much worse. And your short video of the Chinese lantern indoors really sells me. My craptastic Sony HC26 can't even handle that type of lighting. -Ed