Camcorderinfo.com Review Out

John Godden · September 21st, 2006, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Bauer

John, sounds like you're more in the market for a professional camera. These are consumer cameras at a consumer price point. You'll pay a lot more to get XLR, custom image controls, and other advanced features. Nothing unusual about that; standard product line structuring for all kinds of things. Choose the camera that best suits your needs rather than bah-humbugging those that don't.

Pete

I'm really looking for a 'decent' HD mini-cam. Something along the lines of the HC1. It's a real shame that Sony is no longer making that model and their current model (HC3) has been lobotomized. This new Canon looks like it has fantastic video but without some sort of external audio input I'm just not interested. I.e. These cheesy internal mikes are absolutely horrible.............. I'm surprised they just don't connect the mike directly to the transport motor. They might as well considering how much transport noise they pic up. grrrrrrrrr. I think the review sum'd up the audio issue quite well. If enough people 'just say no' perhaps Sony, Canon, etc. will put a hot shoe or mike input on these cams. And no, I don't expect xlr inputs on a $1500 cam. :)

I suspect the Sony HVR-A1 is still the only HD mini-cam that has good features. It does seem a bit 'long in the tooth though'. ;)

JohnG

Lee Wilson · September 22nd, 2006, 07:11 AM

If you would like to use this in situations where sound is critical or even just important, you could buy yourself a dedicated audio recorder and sync it in post.

?

Colin Gould · September 22nd, 2006, 08:41 AM

The HV10 seems to have much less motor noise than other small Canon handhelds. Listen to the silent parts of some clips, posted in my sample clips,
eg http://media.dvinfo.net/canonxh/cgHV...ineseCharm.mpg

Will the XH A1/G1 be too big of a minicam? They seem like the pro sweet spot...
but indeed, this one was almost too small for the great quality it has.

indeed the mic cover, and also the tripod mount, seem to get very hot. Nice metal heatsinks? Hope you have a metal tripod mount to conduct heat away :)

Wes Vasher · September 22nd, 2006, 09:25 AM

Here's a question. I've never done this but it seems like a reasonable way to do it. Record sound with an external device (flash based media would be nice). If you import the video and seperate audio could you sync up the external audio to the internal-mic audio by looking at the waveform in the editor. This way one wouldn't need to use a clapper or something. You'd still need to keep track of how long you were recording.

George Ellis · October 5th, 2006, 11:30 AM

Edit - Nevermind... Reading the manual, only one AV In/Out, so probably not a good idea.

The camera has AV In through a special minijack. I do NOT expect this to work, but has anyone tried hooking a mic up with a RCA - minijack Y to a minijacked mic through the AV cable? You never know. I don't expect it to work, but wierder things have happened.

Aki Peltokoski · October 7th, 2006, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Ellis

Edit - Nevermind... Reading the manual, only one AV In/Out, so probably not a good idea.

The camera has AV In through a special minijack. I do NOT expect this to work, but has anyone tried hooking a mic up with a RCA - minijack Y to a minijacked mic through the AV cable? You never know. I don't expect it to work, but wierder things have happened.

I was thinking exactly the same thing... Can someone try it out?

I get my own HV10 next week... (...so I can make my own FX1 and PD150 comparison tests! :)

Chris Hurd · October 7th, 2006, 08:16 AM

Sorry but that will not work... the AV jack is an *output* when the HV10 is in camcorder mode. Not an input.

Mark Fry · October 16th, 2006, 10:41 AM

Why don't they include a mic/light shoe on the top and a remote mic input socket? Does it really add so much to the build cost? This may be "just a consumer camera", but it's the top-of-the-range and not cheap in any objective sense! So what if 80% of it's purchasers don't use external mics? Enough people do, and maybe Canon would sell more if it had them. When they bring out a range of three or four variants they can start messing around with the bits and pieces, but whilst this is the only one, it should have everything the amateur movie-maker needs: external mic, headphone socket, LANC...

Steve Nunez · October 16th, 2006, 06:57 PM

I'm willing to bet a slightly higher spec version with mic input will come out next- it's only natural and the next progression for these "consumer" models.

Spike Spiegel · October 16th, 2006, 07:11 PM

We are using this camera simply as a POV, putting it in harms way, in crowdy situations, and locations where we don'twant to lug around a big camera. We don't expect it to emulate pro features, we simply use it as a beater camera and get amazing shots.

heres a quick workaround for anyone complaining about the lack of mic jack with this camera. There are some situations where we will want audio to sync up with this camera's footage, in such cases: buy a sony hi-md, get a wireless pack, sync is post, thats it!

Jay Stebbins · October 16th, 2006, 09:25 PM

If you were shooting with a A1 as your primary camera in 24F, would you be able to manipulate the images from the HV10 to match well enough to use with the primary footage? Not necessarily the same scene, but when you need a smaller cam, to avoid notice or damage.

I know it is still early to really tell, but best guess...

Thanks,
Jay

Mark Fry · October 17th, 2006, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike Spiegel

We are using this camera simply as a POV, putting it in harms way, in crowdy situations, and locations where we don'twant to lug around a big camera. We don't expect it to emulate pro features, we simply use it as a beater camera and get amazing shots.

In that situation, it sounds like an ideal camera. However, if you've only got one camera, the HV10 isn't quite good enough, which is such a shame. Why spoil the ship for a ha'p'worth of tar?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Nunez

I'm willing to bet a slightly higher spec version with mic input will come out next- it's only natural and the next progression for these "consumer" models.

That would be sensible. Let's hope so. It won't hurt me to wait a few months...

Enrico Sasso · October 18th, 2006, 08:51 AM

Hello everybody from Italy,

I was quite ready to buy an HV10 last weekend but I taken it a little bit on standby.

I compared it to Sony HC3. From operation point of view and ergonomics Sony is much, much better. Only working on the HV10's zoom control you can move cam, that means you have to handle it always with both hands for a stable recording.
What I liked on HV10 was the LCD panel, brighter and accurate than Sony.
I don't want to go inside the technical features now ( 16/9 sensor, optical stabilizer, manual operation as pro for Canon, while low light performance are better for Sony ), but I'd like to know if someone of you made a test of same recording with both camcorder and playbacked it on HD panel using the component and HDMI connection.
My opinion and experience watching HD, is HDMI improve a lot image sharpening because of no conversion and higher signal transfer rate, so
p.se comment if Canon components can give same result.

Generally speaking my feeling is the best hasn't yet been made in compact HD camcorders. May be Panasonic will out a new model with 16/9 sensor and optical stabilizer like HV10, but in a body and with HDMI like HC3 ?

Steve Nunez · October 18th, 2006, 06:29 PM

Funny, I was all gun-ho about getting an HV10 too- especially considering the fantastic image quality people are touting it to have.....but I just can't get over the mic input omission. Although 90% of my videos don't feature the recorded audio (replaced with music) I'm now finding the need to have a mic a necessary and vital option.
It's ashame as it seems to rival the FX1 in terms of image quality with a tiny form factor- but the mic omission is the deal killer for me.....

....I'm looking at the XH A1 or HVX200....I know it's quite a bit more money but my mind plays all kinds of games with me and I want the best I can afford to get....but if Canon had put a mic input on the HV10, I'd be using it NOW instead of typing about it!

Lee Wilson · October 18th, 2006, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Nunez

Funny, I was all gun-ho about getting an HV10 too- especially considering the fantastic image quality people are touting it to have.....but I just can't get over the mic input omission. Although 90% of my videos don't feature the recorded audio (replaced with music) I'm now finding the need to have a mic a necessary and vital option.
It's ashame as it seems to rival the FX1 in terms of image quality with a tiny form factor- but the mic omission is the deal killer for me.....

I am in much the same position, probably 95% of my work does not require audio as it is usually incorporated into motion graphics and replaced with music - the issue of the lack of mic inputs means little to me but I can see how this would be useful (or necessary to others).

Why did they not drop the useless (to me at least) viewfinder and use the cost and space saved to implement a decent earphones/mic section ? Who would miss the viewfinder when the high resolution LCD screen is so sharp, bright and clear ? I suppose they probably must know their market and the average consumer won't mind the occasional sound of the operator of the camera breathing or eating his lunch (!?) - If I find myself in the position where I need better than decent sound I will drag along a dedicated audio recorder and a mic.

I suppose the real problem with this little camera is we have all seen the gorgeous, noiseless, colorful video quality and want to squeeze professional results out of something you can literally drop in your (coat) pocket. If the audio on this machine matched the picture quality it would have to be a £1500 digital recorder with a £800 pro microphone !

If the video quality on the HV10 was average or poor (more in line with its audio side) the only thing we would be complaining about is the price.

But I still think it is worth the trade off for the fantastic picture quality, that is why I went out yesterday on my bicycle and came home 30 minutes later with a red shiny box with a Canon log on it. :)

October 7th, 2006, 08:16 AM	#37
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Sorry but that will not work... the AV jack is an output when the HV10 is in camcorder mode. Not an input. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

October 16th, 2006, 10:41 AM	#38
Mark Fry Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 425	Why don't they include a mic/light shoe on the top and a remote mic input socket? Does it really add so much to the build cost? This may be "just a consumer camera", but it's the top-of-the-range and not cheap in any objective sense! So what if 80% of it's purchasers don't use external mics? Enough people do, and maybe Canon would sell more if it had them. When they bring out a range of three or four variants they can start messing around with the bits and pieces, but whilst this is the only one, it should have everything the amateur movie-maker needs: external mic, headphone socket, LANC... __________________ Steam Age Pictures - videos in aid of railway preservation societies.

October 16th, 2006, 06:57 PM	#39
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	I'm willing to bet a slightly higher spec version with mic input will come out next- it's only natural and the next progression for these "consumer" models. __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

October 18th, 2006, 06:29 PM	#44
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Funny, I was all gun-ho about getting an HV10 too- especially considering the fantastic image quality people are touting it to have.....but I just can't get over the mic input omission. Although 90% of my videos don't feature the recorded audio (replaced with music) I'm now finding the need to have a mic a necessary and vital option. It's ashame as it seems to rival the FX1 in terms of image quality with a tiny form factor- but the mic omission is the deal killer for me..... ....I'm looking at the XH A1 or HVX200....I know it's quite a bit more money but my mind plays all kinds of games with me and I want the best I can afford to get....but if Canon had put a mic input on the HV10, I'd be using it NOW instead of typing about it! __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

September 22nd, 2006, 07:11 AM	#32
Lee Wilson Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 376	If you would like to use this in situations where sound is critical or even just important, you could buy yourself a dedicated audio recorder and sync it in post. ?

September 22nd, 2006, 08:41 AM	#33
Colin Gould Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Foster City, CA Posts: 123	The HV10 seems to have much less motor noise than other small Canon handhelds. Listen to the silent parts of some clips, posted in my sample clips, eg http://media.dvinfo.net/canonxh/cgHV...ineseCharm.mpg Will the XH A1/G1 be too big of a minicam? They seem like the pro sweet spot... but indeed, this one was almost too small for the great quality it has. indeed the mic cover, and also the tripod mount, seem to get very hot. Nice metal heatsinks? Hope you have a metal tripod mount to conduct heat away :)

September 22nd, 2006, 09:25 AM	#34
Wes Vasher Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 440	Here's a question. I've never done this but it seems like a reasonable way to do it. Record sound with an external device (flash based media would be nice). If you import the video and seperate audio could you sync up the external audio to the internal-mic audio by looking at the waveform in the editor. This way one wouldn't need to use a clapper or something. You'd still need to keep track of how long you were recording.

October 5th, 2006, 11:30 AM	#35
George Ellis Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Suwanee, GA Posts: 1,241	Edit - Nevermind... Reading the manual, only one AV In/Out, so probably not a good idea. The camera has AV In through a special minijack. I do NOT expect this to work, but has anyone tried hooking a mic up with a RCA - minijack Y to a minijacked mic through the AV cable? You never know. I don't expect it to work, but wierder things have happened.

October 16th, 2006, 07:11 PM	#40
Spike Spiegel Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 429	We are using this camera simply as a POV, putting it in harms way, in crowdy situations, and locations where we don'twant to lug around a big camera. We don't expect it to emulate pro features, we simply use it as a beater camera and get amazing shots. heres a quick workaround for anyone complaining about the lack of mic jack with this camera. There are some situations where we will want audio to sync up with this camera's footage, in such cases: buy a sony hi-md, get a wireless pack, sync is post, thats it!

October 16th, 2006, 09:25 PM	#41
Jay Stebbins Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Nantucket MA Posts: 82	If you were shooting with a A1 as your primary camera in 24F, would you be able to manipulate the images from the HV10 to match well enough to use with the primary footage? Not necessarily the same scene, but when you need a smaller cam, to avoid notice or damage. I know it is still early to really tell, but best guess... Thanks, Jay

October 18th, 2006, 08:51 AM	#43
Enrico Sasso Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Milano - Italy Posts: 25	Hello everybody from Italy, I was quite ready to buy an HV10 last weekend but I taken it a little bit on standby. I compared it to Sony HC3. From operation point of view and ergonomics Sony is much, much better. Only working on the HV10's zoom control you can move cam, that means you have to handle it always with both hands for a stable recording. What I liked on HV10 was the LCD panel, brighter and accurate than Sony. I don't want to go inside the technical features now ( 16/9 sensor, optical stabilizer, manual operation as pro for Canon, while low light performance are better for Sony ), but I'd like to know if someone of you made a test of same recording with both camcorder and playbacked it on HD panel using the component and HDMI connection. My opinion and experience watching HD, is HDMI improve a lot image sharpening because of no conversion and higher signal transfer rate, so p.se comment if Canon components can give same result. Generally speaking my feeling is the best hasn't yet been made in compact HD camcorders. May be Panasonic will out a new model with 16/9 sensor and optical stabilizer like HV10, but in a body and with HDMI like HC3 ?