HV10 instead of XL2 as 'transitional' cam?

[Jeff Geissler]

I didn't see an HV10 forum, so I apologize if this is in the wrong forum...

I was thinking of selling my XL2 and buying the HV10... This way I could pay off some of my hideous debt from getting the XL2, and start saving for an XH model in the future...I already used the XL2 for the main shoots I wanted to take, and i just need a camera to on hand until the next 'big thing' comes up...

Would this be crazy? Would selling the XL2 for the HV10 as transitional cam make any sense?

What would the benefits of KEEPING the XL2 be if I plan to go HD in the next year or so? Are there any?

The only thing I will miss is the 24p 16:9 mode on the XL2-- but if I'm not mistaken, HD is natively 16:9-- so I would just have to do without the 24p until I upgrade to the next model down the line... ??

Any thoughts are appreciated...

[Ben Gurvich]

The thing is HDV looks great in HD. But when you go down to DVD or DV, you lose so much, your better spending the xtra money on more lights/lenses/post color correction etc.

The XL2 is a great camera. Ive seen some great stuff from it. Your gonna lose your sound too!

At the moment, HDV seems to me a bit like a format without a home. It's popular at school, (the Internet) but when its time to go home, Mummy and Daddy (Bluray and HD DVD) are either too busy arguing with each other or they're not even home. And if they are, there not really able to play with HDV.

[Pete Bauer]

Moved to the HV10 forum.

Do what you need to do financially, of course. But I'm not sure that cashing in the XL2 would be all that helpful. You might get $3500 for your XL2 if it is pristine, and the HV10's MSRP is $1300, whereas if you do a couple of for-hire jobs, you can make up that difference before this month is out. Then you can keep your XL2 until you're really ready for a new camera...remember that the HV10 is a consumer pocket camera that shoots 60i only and has far less image control control than the pro cameras. If you do want to match existing footage, it'll be a pain at best.

FWIW, a number of people have complained about poor downconversion from HDV to DVD but I've done so in several projects and been quite pleased with the results. My DVD material that originated on the XL H1 looks better to me than that from the XL2. However, HDV requires a FAST computer, so don't be too eager to give up miniDV if you don't have, or can't afford to buy, a speedy system. Otherwise, all the FUD about HDV is just noise; with fast hardware, up-to-date editing software, and an understanding of how to use it, HDV gives very nice results.

Since the HV10 and XH cameras are not yet available, it is not really yet possible to make definitive comparisons. If you decide you must sell your XL2, nobody can predict for you whether you'll be happy with a less expensive consumer camera.

[Jeff Geissler]

Originally Posted by Pete Bauer

Moved to the HV10 forum.

Do what you need to do financially, of course. But I'm not sure that cashing in the XL2 would be all that helpful. You might get $3500 for your XL2 if it is pristine, and the HV10's MSRP is $1300, whereas if you do a couple of for-hire jobs, you can make up that difference before this month is out. Then you can keep your XL2 until you're really ready for a new camera...remember that the HV10 is a consumer pocket camera that shoots 60i only and has far less image control control than the pro cameras. If you do want to match existing footage, it'll be a pain at best.

FWIW, a number of people have complained about poor downconversion from HDV to DVD but I've done so in several projects and been quite pleased with the results. My DVD material that originated on the XL H1 looks better to me than that from the XL2. However, HDV requires a FAST computer, so don't be too eager to give up miniDV if you don't have, or can't afford to buy, a speedy system. Otherwise, all the FUD about HDV is just noise; with fast hardware, up-to-date editing software, and an understanding of how to use it, HDV gives very nice results.

Since the HV10 and XH cameras are not yet available, it is not really yet possible to make definitive comparisons. If you decide you must sell your XL2, nobody can predict for you whether you'll be happy with a less expensive consumer camera.

Thanks for moving the thread to its proper home... I couldn't seem to find the HV10 thread upon first look- apologies.

Your advice is good, I appreciate the insight. The HD I've seen downconverted to DVD here at work looks SUPERB. I don't know if its a mental thing or if it actually looks better. To me, it looks better- even in standard definition.

I would like to get the H1, but can't swing the 10k pricetag... so I figured I would switch up to HD low end, save up some money and look at the XH when they come out... and decide from there if I should get the XH or upgrade to H1... Perhaps by then the XH *edit-I mean H1* will be a little less expensive?

It's just a matter of what the reason for my keeping the xl2 is-- I've used it enough to get my money's worth, and am currently at a full time job with equipment I can get access to in the meantime, I figured it'd be better to sell it now than later in terms of 'value'... Is my thinking making any sense?
Down the line, say 1-2 years- will the XL2 still be a relevant camera and something I can use... or will everything be HD and XL2 no longer the weapon it is/was ...

I'm also not familiar with the HD/blue ray stuff... is there an incompatibility issue?

thanks-- I appreciate any thoughts anyone might have

[Gabriele Sartori]

Originally Posted by Jeff Geissler

Your advice is good, I appreciate the insight. The HD I've seen downconverted to DVD here at work looks SUPERB. I don't know if its a mental thing or if it actually looks better. To me, it looks better- even in standard definition.

I can't talk for the XL2, I'm sure it is a great camera. I bought the very first HDV camera in the market the JVC HD1 and even with all its limitation it totally killed the GL1 that I had before. The GL1 was considered the closest prosumer thing to a XL1. THe only tricks with the HD1 were control the lights and compress the MPEG2 DVD with the highest possible quality (all the parameters way up). It took a lot of time but the results were so incredible that everybody thought I had a much better camera. HDV is a compromise but it has a lot of color sampling due to the number of pixel even at 4:2:0). THe small pixels on one side are compensated by the luma resolution and the effective color resolution. It is less than perfect but I would take HDV any day Vs. SD even for DVD ouput. On top of that anything I do will be rendered also in HDV resolution on a cheap D-VHS tape. with only $500 I can playback a real high definition product at any time. I strongly suggest it.

Regards
Gabriele

[Lee Wilson]

Originally Posted by Jeff Geissler

The HD I've seen downconverted to DVD here at work looks SUPERB.

I agree, I am shooting at 1080i and squeeezing it down to 16:9 anamorphic 720*576 (PAL) and the quality is simply amazing, far better than anything I have managed to get out of a SD camera.