A mic/reality check...

Wes Vasher · September 15th, 2006, 09:21 PM

Here's a couple other products... not sure if they are any good, I was just Googling...

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_u...2496-main.html

http://www.rolandus.com/products/pro...x?ObjectId=757

Pierre Petit · September 16th, 2006, 11:36 PM

also the marantz pmd670
http://www.d-mpro.com/users/folder.a...9&SubCatID=188

and the tascam
http://www.tascam.com/Products/hdp2.html

both are bit more expensive but seem to be a better investment in the long run.....especially the tascam.

The one from m audio seems to be the best deal money wise....especially if you use an external preamp.(it has 2 1/4 jack) The downside seems to be it uses an internal battery.Wich means when it dies you need to recharge it.You cannot swipe for new cells.

The Roland looks good but it has only a 1/8 mini stereo jack so if you wanna use a good shotgunmic you'll need one more adapter like the beachtech or something.

I wonder what kind of trick to use to make the match up of the audio files with the right video file for editing. I was thinking of mounting the mic with a L bracket(flash grip and bracket) to the camera, enabeling the button sounds and hoping the to sync up the beeps. I guess naming the takes out loud would also help identifying wich audio file goes to wich videofile.
Anyone got a better idea?

(sorry for my bad english)

Wes Vasher · September 18th, 2006, 08:54 AM

Dang, for the cost of these recorders it makes more sense to just mount a cheapo DV camcorder that has a microphone port beside the HV10 and shoot video, that would make it easier to sync the sound. Although this would bulk up the HV10 it's pretty small to start with.

If I was shooting something where I wanted really good sound though the M-Audio has good specs and is quite portable.

The Canon Elura 100 DV camcorder for $333 has a microphone port.

Thomas Smet · September 18th, 2006, 01:39 PM

I wonder if you hooked the firewire from the HDV camera to a cheap DV camera if the HDV would control the DV for record and stop and keep the same timecode?

Lee Wilson · September 18th, 2006, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry Kineda

I think recording sound with a handheld recorder would be easier and cheaper than buying another camcorder. Try the olympus ds-2 http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_se...p?product=1153 which allows mic input.

+iopd + recording accessory.

Wes Vasher · September 18th, 2006, 06:29 PM

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...ter?sku=807028

Al Bogdan · September 18th, 2006, 08:42 PM

Picked up an HV10 today.

Since it was discussed here, I thought I'd try using my M-Audio MicroTracker and sync the audio. It was easy and worked well. Used a hand clap for a quick sync of the MicroTracker and HV10 audio. Would probably keep a log sheet to match the timecode with the file number of the recorded audio if there were lots of takes.

I didn't buy the HV10 for pro work, only family footage, but it's good to know I can use the MicroTracker in situations where audio is important and I don't want to lug around the big guns.

Jerry Jones · September 22nd, 2006, 10:31 PM

I disagree that a "consumer" camcorder should be excused for not having an external microphone input.

I have tiny, "consumer" camcorders that *do* have external microphone inputs.

One of my camcorders is a JVC GR-DF550, which is a heck of a "consumer" camcorder, in my humble opinion, and -- even with its tiny size -- it has a microphone input. Heck, even SANYO's mini HD1 has a microphone input. It can't be called "professional" in any way.

Sure Canon has a right to do anything they want in this regard, but I'd never buy or recommend a camcorder like the HV10.

Yes, one could get around the problem by using a Sony MiniDisc recorder and then synchronize the audio/video in post, but that's a needless hassle.

But you're right that the solution in this case is to choose a different camera.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

The solution in this particular case is to choose a different camera... one that will allow you to plug in an external mic. Remember this is first and foremost a consumer camcorder.

Chris Hurd · September 22nd, 2006, 11:15 PM

Some consumer cams have mic inputs... some don't. In fact most of them don't.

For most (not all, but most) DV Info Net folks, the Canon HV10 is not so much a consumer HDV camcorder as it is an XL H1 playback deck capable of handling video recorded in 24F and 30F Frame mode. Yes there are a few people here who bought it for personal use, and of course I greatly appreciate their feedback and the sample video upload clips they're generously sharing with us. But its primary usefulness for the bulk of our readership is as an XL H1 playback deck. It just happens to have a lens and a microphone, so you can call it a camcorder... I guess.

Thomas Smet · September 23rd, 2006, 08:06 AM

Chris I think it is also nice for XL H1 users as a tiny camera to compliment 60i shoots with the XL H1. If both cameras are used then the audio from the HV10 isn't really a concern because it will mostly be used as B roll. I think for B roll this could be a great little camera.

While it would have been nice for the HV10 to have 24f and 30f shooting to compliment the XL H1 on all types of shoots as B roll I think it would just not work with a single chip camera. The way I think the F modes work I think you really do need three chips. The 60i from the HV10 could of course always be converted to try to match 24f or 30f footage for a few B roll shots.

Kevin Haupt · September 23rd, 2006, 03:12 PM

Not including a way of adding a better microphone to a $1300 HDV camera is just plain short sighted and stupid. I will not consider the HV10 for that reason, no matter how good the picture is. I want the ability to record decent audio too without going to double system. I already own mikes, mixers and a good assortment of audio tools.

Canon has been dumbing down their consumer offerings for the past few years, and I really do not understand why. The lack of a microphone jack or even a dedicated Canon hot shoe on this camera is just the latest manifestation of canon's shortsightedness. Let me give you another example. A few years ago Canon dropped LANC jacks on all of their compact DV camcorders, virtually conceding the market for HD cameras which could be housed in inexpensive underwater housing (with electronic controls) to Sony. What's the big deal with electronic controls in a housing? It gives you the option to upgrade to newer or more full featured camera without having to spend another $2000 to upgrade the housing, as long as the form factor of the camera is relatively the same. I know this is a niche market but Canon just surrendered it and walked away . How much does a microphone jack and a LANC jack actually cost? Would I be willing to spend an additional $100-200 to have these features? Absolutely, and I know many others on the underwater photo forums feel the same way.

I have not bought a Canon compact DV camera since my Optura PI. It included a LANC jack, microphone jack, smart hot shoe and a true progressive CCD (30p). I also purchased the small shotgun mike Canon made for this camera along with their wide angle adaptor. I would love to replace the Optura Pi with a newer and as well featured Canon HD or HDV camera but Canon makes nothing even close to this. I would have had to move up to a GL2 which then requires a much larger housing etc. I have sent multiple emails to Canon over the years with the usual and repeated response being:

"...Decisions to include or exclude a particular camera feature are made by
our engineers and product designers in Japan, based on a number of
factors. Consumer demand, technological limitations, and customer
feedback are all taken in to consideration. Unfortunately, I am unable
to provide you with an exact reason why this particular feature was not
included..."

Meryem Ersoz · September 24th, 2006, 10:27 AM

if you want decent onboard audio, get the Sony A1. it's not that much more expensive, no more than you would pay for a good secondary sound source. why is this even a discussion?? to Canon, this camcorder has two markets: high-end consumer gadgeteers and mid-level professionals who want a deck with 24/30F playback. if you don't fall into one of those categories, there are definitely better choices for you.

i'm planning to use mine as a walkaround camera, to capture into stock footage images which i would not otherwise be able to capture on the fly. stock, yes, it is perfect for image-only stock. with this tiny camera and my trusty beanbag, i will get images with this camera that i would not otherwise have available. but after testing it against my FX-1, i would never use it intentionally for B roll.

if i ever manage to roll out of my PJs and get to my studio today, i'll post the test clips. it's such a beautiful day, though, that i may have to generate a few more clips first...it's a day for shooting pretty pictures, not for holing up in the studio with coffee....

September 22nd, 2006, 11:15 PM	#24
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Some consumer cams have mic inputs... some don't. In fact most of them don't. For most (not all, but most) DV Info Net folks, the Canon HV10 is not so much a consumer HDV camcorder as it is an XL H1 playback deck capable of handling video recorded in 24F and 30F Frame mode. Yes there are a few people here who bought it for personal use, and of course I greatly appreciate their feedback and the sample video upload clips they're generously sharing with us. But its primary usefulness for the bulk of our readership is as an XL H1 playback deck. It just happens to have a lens and a microphone, so you can call it a camcorder... I guess. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

September 23rd, 2006, 03:12 PM	#26
Kevin Haupt New Boot Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico Posts: 14	no excuse for the lack of an external microphone jack on a $1300 camera Not including a way of adding a better microphone to a $1300 HDV camera is just plain short sighted and stupid. I will not consider the HV10 for that reason, no matter how good the picture is. I want the ability to record decent audio too without going to double system. I already own mikes, mixers and a good assortment of audio tools. Canon has been dumbing down their consumer offerings for the past few years, and I really do not understand why. The lack of a microphone jack or even a dedicated Canon hot shoe on this camera is just the latest manifestation of canon's shortsightedness. Let me give you another example. A few years ago Canon dropped LANC jacks on all of their compact DV camcorders, virtually conceding the market for HD cameras which could be housed in inexpensive underwater housing (with electronic controls) to Sony. What's the big deal with electronic controls in a housing? It gives you the option to upgrade to newer or more full featured camera without having to spend another $2000 to upgrade the housing, as long as the form factor of the camera is relatively the same. I know this is a niche market but Canon just surrendered it and walked away . How much does a microphone jack and a LANC jack actually cost? Would I be willing to spend an additional $100-200 to have these features? Absolutely, and I know many others on the underwater photo forums feel the same way. I have not bought a Canon compact DV camera since my Optura PI. It included a LANC jack, microphone jack, smart hot shoe and a true progressive CCD (30p). I also purchased the small shotgun mike Canon made for this camera along with their wide angle adaptor. I would love to replace the Optura Pi with a newer and as well featured Canon HD or HDV camera but Canon makes nothing even close to this. I would have had to move up to a GL2 which then requires a much larger housing etc. I have sent multiple emails to Canon over the years with the usual and repeated response being: "...Decisions to include or exclude a particular camera feature are made by our engineers and product designers in Japan, based on a number of factors. Consumer demand, technological limitations, and customer feedback are all taken in to consideration. Unfortunately, I am unable to provide you with an exact reason why this particular feature was not included..."

September 15th, 2006, 09:21 PM	#16
Wes Vasher Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 440	Here's a couple other products... not sure if they are any good, I was just Googling... http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_u...2496-main.html http://www.rolandus.com/products/pro...x?ObjectId=757

September 16th, 2006, 11:36 PM	#17
Pierre Petit New Boot Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: canada Posts: 22	also the marantz pmd670 http://www.d-mpro.com/users/folder.a...9&SubCatID=188 and the tascam http://www.tascam.com/Products/hdp2.html both are bit more expensive but seem to be a better investment in the long run.....especially the tascam. The one from m audio seems to be the best deal money wise....especially if you use an external preamp.(it has 2 1/4 jack) The downside seems to be it uses an internal battery.Wich means when it dies you need to recharge it.You cannot swipe for new cells. The Roland looks good but it has only a 1/8 mini stereo jack so if you wanna use a good shotgunmic you'll need one more adapter like the beachtech or something. I wonder what kind of trick to use to make the match up of the audio files with the right video file for editing. I was thinking of mounting the mic with a L bracket(flash grip and bracket) to the camera, enabeling the button sounds and hoping the to sync up the beeps. I guess naming the takes out loud would also help identifying wich audio file goes to wich videofile. Anyone got a better idea? (sorry for my bad english)

September 18th, 2006, 08:54 AM	#18
Wes Vasher Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 440	Dang, for the cost of these recorders it makes more sense to just mount a cheapo DV camcorder that has a microphone port beside the HV10 and shoot video, that would make it easier to sync the sound. Although this would bulk up the HV10 it's pretty small to start with. If I was shooting something where I wanted really good sound though the M-Audio has good specs and is quite portable. The Canon Elura 100 DV camcorder for $333 has a microphone port.

September 18th, 2006, 01:39 PM	#19
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	I wonder if you hooked the firewire from the HDV camera to a cheap DV camera if the HDV would control the DV for record and stop and keep the same timecode?

September 18th, 2006, 06:29 PM	#21
Wes Vasher Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 440	http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...ter?sku=807028

September 18th, 2006, 08:42 PM	#22
Al Bogdan New Boot Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Huntington Woods, MI Posts: 10	Picked up an HV10 today. Since it was discussed here, I thought I'd try using my M-Audio MicroTracker and sync the audio. It was easy and worked well. Used a hand clap for a quick sync of the MicroTracker and HV10 audio. Would probably keep a log sheet to match the timecode with the file number of the recorded audio if there were lots of takes. I didn't buy the HV10 for pro work, only family footage, but it's good to know I can use the MicroTracker in situations where audio is important and I don't want to lug around the big guns.

September 23rd, 2006, 08:06 AM	#25
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	Chris I think it is also nice for XL H1 users as a tiny camera to compliment 60i shoots with the XL H1. If both cameras are used then the audio from the HV10 isn't really a concern because it will mostly be used as B roll. I think for B roll this could be a great little camera. While it would have been nice for the HV10 to have 24f and 30f shooting to compliment the XL H1 on all types of shoots as B roll I think it would just not work with a single chip camera. The way I think the F modes work I think you really do need three chips. The 60i from the HV10 could of course always be converted to try to match 24f or 30f footage for a few B roll shots.

September 24th, 2006, 10:27 AM	#27
Meryem Ersoz Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 3,015	if you want decent onboard audio, get the Sony A1. it's not that much more expensive, no more than you would pay for a good secondary sound source. why is this even a discussion?? to Canon, this camcorder has two markets: high-end consumer gadgeteers and mid-level professionals who want a deck with 24/30F playback. if you don't fall into one of those categories, there are definitely better choices for you. i'm planning to use mine as a walkaround camera, to capture into stock footage images which i would not otherwise be able to capture on the fly. stock, yes, it is perfect for image-only stock. with this tiny camera and my trusty beanbag, i will get images with this camera that i would not otherwise have available. but after testing it against my FX-1, i would never use it intentionally for B roll. if i ever manage to roll out of my PJs and get to my studio today, i'll post the test clips. it's such a beautiful day, though, that i may have to generate a few more clips first...it's a day for shooting pretty pictures, not for holing up in the studio with coffee....