HFG20 or HFG30?

[Robert Morane]

my HFS200 was stolen few days ago. I mainly do news-feature style for the web (yoga, travel etc). I was really happy with the HFS200 and use it for the last 3 years.
My dilemma is the HFg20 or the soon to be release HFg30. Off course money is always a consideration but really, in this case a minor one. Would like to get the right tool to keep me happy for the next 4 years.
Please let me know what you think....

[Bill Bruner]

Sorry to hear about the loss of your HFS200, Robert. The HF G20 is a great camera, but it doesn't seem to be much of an upgrade over the HF G10.

I recommend waiting a few days for the HF G30 for its 1080/60p and 35mbps bit rate. Any modern camera should shoot at higher frame rates (and higher bit rates) for increased resolution, smoother action and slow motion. I am a Panasonic shooter and I use 1080/60p and high bitrates almost exclusively now.

Hope this is helpful,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution

[Robert Morane]

Bill, I spent the evening going through th documentation for both cameras and I have to agree with you. It feels like, despite the HFG20 being a great cam, the HFG30 look like the beginning of something new in the market of highly affordable prosumer camera.
As a user of Panasonic what are your thoughts about the X920 and would you see it in the same class as the HFG30, since the x920 is often presented as a strip down AC90?

[C.S. Michael]

My three year old Panasonic TM700 is on its last legs (it has frankly taken a beating over the years) and I am currently weighing the G20/G30 versus the Panasonic X920.

The X920 looks like a highly capable little 60p camera (as was my old TM700) and a bit of a bargain at current prices ($900 range). If 60p is the primary draw for you, I'd give it strong consideration.

That said, I'm not certain the Panny includes a true 24p frame rate. I've tried to find more info about the X920's offering of 24p; since Panasonic downplays its functionality in the marketing materials, I'm assuming that it's not native 24p. Since I tend to use 24p more often than 60p, my dilemma is between the G20 and the X920. Not sure I will spring for the G30 at those launch prices.

[Bill Bruner]

Originally Posted by Robert Morane

Bill, I spent the evening going through th documentation for both cameras and I have to agree with you. It feels like, despite the HFG20 being a great cam, the HFG30 look like the beginning of something new in the market of highly affordable prosumer camera.
As a user of Panasonic what are your thoughts about the X920 and would you see it in the same class as the HFG30, since the x920 is often presented as a strip down AC90?

Hi Robert - I agree with C.S. - I'm "[n]ot sure I would spring for the HF G30 at these launch prices."

For $15 more than the price of the $1699 HF G30, you could have a $1715 pro AG-AC90 with XLR inputs and a top handle. And the AG-AC90 is available right now, not on June 30th.

I do like the looks and the heavier weight of the Canon camcorders over my TM900 - but if I were upgrading, it would be to the $898 (as of this post) X920. I can find a lot of other things to do with 700 bucks :)

And you can always make the stubby little Panasonics look cooler with a $50 matte box:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/--...o/P1010484.JPG

Good luck with your decision,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution

[Don Palomaki]

FWIW: I've worked with TM700 and XA10 and I find the XA10 (similar to HF-G10) to be the better camcorder to use and the footage has been more consistently good. The TM700 seems to have bad days for some unknown reason and its not the shooter (not me) from what I can tell. Whether this extends to current models I can't say, I am considering adding an XA20 this fall.

Ultimately most camcorders can do a good job inthe hands of a skilled shooter who knows the machines limitations and how to work within them. It becomes more of an issue of ergonomics, look and feel, and which gives footage that works better in the task at hand - and that can range from ability to intercut easily with other camcorder footage to needed shooting modes. A few dollars saved on first cost can be eaten-up quickly by additional time required while editing.

[Robert Morane]

indeed, the x920 is very interesting. Few months ago I bought 2 LX7 with evf and was very pleased by the video quality, I was in fact thinking of using it as my b-cam when I do travel or yoga videos.
I am also enjoying shooting in MP4 a breeze to work with in Imovie and FCX .
Traveling a lot, the lighter and smaller x920 would be an advantage.
I would have , sadly, to let go of my canon shotgun ( dm 100).
The price is tempting, the complementarity with my LX7 and smallness are other great selling points.
Any other thoughts before I pull the trigger???
(here is my LX7 in action in Mexico:

Panasonic Lumix LX7 in Isla Mujeres Mexico - YouTube

)

[C.S. Michael]

I am ruling out the HF G30 on the basis of price. Although it looks like a fantastic cam, for $1700 I'd want XLR inputs. This leaves a battle royale between G20 vs. X920.

Favoring the Panasonic:
60p (but sadly, no native 24p)
less expensive by at least $100
smaller & lighter (.35 lb. lighter, 0.4 inches shorter)
slightly wider lens (29.8 vs 30.4 in the Canon)
slightly more optical zoom (12X zoom versus 10x in the Canon)
slightly higher resolution LCD (1.152 million pixel versus 922k in the Canon)
Universal cold shoe attachment (Canon's is proprietary mini)
Purports to have three 1/2.3" sensors (but the jury is out on this advantage - creative marketing is suspected)
Built-in wifi capability (a new feature)

Favoring the Canon:
Native 24p (but sadly, no 60p)
Better "pro" eye loop & lens hood
includes 32GB onboard memory + 2 SD card slots
8-blade iris (can't find info on the Panasonic iris)
close 20mm minimum focusing distance (versus 1.2m on Panny)
Dedicated pre-record button (a nice feature, as I found it cumbersome to access in my TM700)

I think it boils down to frame rates. If you want 60P above all else, the X920 is an easy choice. If you want native 24p, you must opt for the G20.

[Bill Bruner]

C.S. - Another significant difference is that the $898 (as of this post) X920 has a higher max bit rate (28mbps) than the 24mbps of the $999 (backordered from Amazon at this price) HF G20. And the X920 has a larger capacity stock battery too (1250mah vs 850mah).

On the other hand, the HF G20 has pro features such as color bars, a LANC port and cinegammas.

Here is the slashcam side by side of the analogous European models, the X929 and G25:

HD camcorder reviews/tests and comparison of Panasonic HC-X929 and Canon HF G25 Best values highlighted sorted by score

I think the X920's 12 lux low light performance is marginally better - plus the 60p frame rate and saving $100 are both important considerations for me.

It's a tough call, but I'd probably go with the Panasonic.

Again, hope this is helpful,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution

[Robert Morane]

Thank you for all the good information. I've order a Panasonic x920 and should get it beginning of next week. I will do a project with it in the next few weeks and will be back to you to report.
One of the main selling point pf the x920 was is smaller size and weight when compare to the Canon HFG30.
I am aiming at the most versatile "travel friendly" kit possible. I usually spend half the year on the road and balancing quality-usability and portability is paramount.

[C.S. Michael]

I went to a local electronics store today to get my hands on a Canon G20. It was helpful to see the camera in person.

Yes, the G20 is significantly larger than the X920 - there's more mass/girth to the camera (and this display model was without the lens hood, which would add even more length). It certainly has the physical appearance of a prosumer model, if that matters. But for my purposes, it may be a little too bulky.

I also travel frequently, and love the Panasonic design. It's small & light enough to carry anywhere (even fitting into a few of my coat pockets). Its appearance is more stealthy, too. You will be hard pressed to find higher quality with a smaller footprint.

Overall I have been very pleased with the sharpness, lowlight, and image stabilization of my aging TM700. So after flirting with the 24p of the Canon, it appears I am going to stick with Panasonic. (Now, if only my old batteries & accessories fit the new camera. Grr...)

[Tony Maceo]

I own 1 TM-700 and 2 Panasonic TM-900 and I can assure you the batteries from the TM-700 will not fit the newer models. I too am at the crossroads of upgrading cameras or adding to my current gear. Seriously looking at the G30 due to its improved sensor and 20x zoom. I shoot a good bit of sports and now that the Canons have finally brought 60p on board, I really am taking them serious. Additionally I have a Canon dSLR and the footage should cut better than the almost impossible Panasonic "look".

One reason I am looking to move away is because of the slight strobing effect you get in contrasty shots while slowly zooming with the TM-900. Also the light loss on zooming to tele end can be bothersome also. The new Canon has a f1.8 -2.8 range and should fare much better in low light performance. It will be awesome if someone does a $1000-2000 dollar video camera comparison soon after the Canon G/XA and JVC HM70 comes out.

[Anders Borjesson]

I own both the Legria HF G25 and HF G30. The nicest advantage (except the 20X zoom) is the 1080/50p 28Mbps AVCHD setting. I haven´t testet MP4 yet.
With the HF G30 filming cars all the aliasing (jaggies) are gone. Jaggies was a big problem with lower resolution and lower bitrates.

[Tom Kilgore]

I upgraded from the G10 to the G30.

One of the main reasons is the longer reach of the G30, because I have experienced the need for it at Yellowstone National Park. I couldn't get close(not that I really wanted to) to the Grizzlies to get some good footage. I ended up using an old Sony hx100v which has a 30x(800mm) reach but even that wasn't quite enough as the resulting video was very noisy and poor quality, because I resorted to the digital zoom also.

I've been testing the G30 and the 20x at f2.8 is going to serve me well I think. I also am trying the 2x digital zoom option, and I am very impressed with the results so far. If I understand the math...it will give me 40x (1000mm) when I can't get close enough and want to get something even if it is not up to the standards of some on this forum. I really feel that I need the lanc input also, because at such telephoto extremes it is good to have control of the zoom and exposure on the handle of the tripod instead of using the buttons on the camera which causes shake. It also makes it nice to be able to pan while zooming. I use a Libec zoom control. Cheap but good.

It's heavier, but worth it in my opinion. I find that the more responsive lcd and the programmable buttons really streamline my operation of the camera. That's a plus when things are happening fast, and I need to get set up fast. Having 60p is nice.

I struggled with whether or not to spend that much money for the G30, but relatively speaking it is a reasonable price I think. I can't quite afford or justify a pro camera(so my wife tells me).