Canon Vixia HF G10 Sample videos

[Eric Olson]

Broadcast sports is generally 60i or 60p. When shooting with the HFG10 for web delivery, the need or lack of need for slow motion replay determines whether to shoot in 60i or 30p. If you need slow motion, shoot 60i.

[Andree Markefors]

Originally Posted by Eric Olson

If you need slow motion, shoot 60i.

Why on earth would slow motion be a factor for deciding?

[Mikko Topponen]

Because 60 is better than 30?

[Andree Markefors]

Originally Posted by Mikko Topponen

Because 60 is better than 30?

60 what is better than 30 what?

That is my constant worry on these forums.

People actually don't know the difference between fields and frames.

[Eric Olson]

Originally Posted by Andree Markefors

Why on earth would slow motion be a factor for deciding?

60i can be deinterlaced to 60p and 60p can slowed to 30p to obtain smooth 1/2-speed slow motion. If you start with 30p and slow it down to 1/2 speed you end up with 15p which isn't very smooth. It is possible to smooth 15p out using motion estimation, however this type of processing works best for smoothing out large scale movement and slow motion in sports needs to reveal quick small scale movements to be interesting. Thus, shooting 60i or 60p is necessary for slow motion. Over cranking to 120p would be even better and could be used to obtain smooth 1/4-speed slow motion at 30p, but this is not an option on the HFG10.

[Mikko Topponen]

Originally Posted by Andree Markefors

60 what is better than 30 what?

That is my constant worry on these forums.

People actually don't know the difference between fields and frames.

Maybe you should learn the difference between 60 and 30? Yes, 60 is interlaced, but that is still 2x more temporal information. Eric has it right.

[Andree Markefors]

Originally Posted by Eric Olson

60i can be deinterlaced to 60p

:)

Eric, you need to look into interlaced and progressive again.

[Andree Markefors]

Originally Posted by Mikko Topponen

Yes, 60 is interlaced, but that is still 2x more temporal information.

Hehe... I guess that's one way to put it!

But just to be clear: when you say "temporal information", you mean the two parts of the same frame, torn apart and separated by time in half resolution fields?

[Eric Olson]

A detailed explanation of how to deinterlace 60i to obtain 60p is at

Eugenia's Rants and Thoughts Blog Archive Butter-smooth slow motion

You can find similar articles by searching this forum and elsewhere.

[Andree Markefors]

Originally Posted by Eric Olson

A detailed explanation of how to deinterlace 60i to obtain 60p is at

Eugenia's Rants and Thoughts Blog Archive Butter-smooth slow motion

You can find similar articles by searching this forum and elsewhere.

What you are effectively referring to are further proof to what I am trying to say! The advantages of progressive frames vs interlaced. And yes- for slow motion, more frame are better. And yes, progressive is better!

But please tell me that you realize that you cannot "obtain" 60 progressive frames out of 60 interlaced fields. Please acknowledge this!!

What you CAN do, using more or less sophisticated software, is to BLEND frames. It has been available in After Effects for quite some time:

By studying two successive frames and the pixel motion, the software can inject new frames, synthesized out of thin air (i.e. create new frames and pixel data not previously there).

The results may vary from very good to quite poor, depending on source footage and how much you're trying to push it.

This way I could create a 300p file from 30p footage.

But... this is not what this discussion was/is about.

60i makes for 30p. And for each of those "p" frames, two "i" fields are used. Those two "i" fields are separated by time if you shoot in a "i" format. And there is nothing that will or can change this 'after the fact'.

IF you KNOW that you will do frame blending via pixel motion, it might be interesting to to shoot 60i due to the fact that you get twice as many "half resolution frames" that the software can use when synthesizing new pixels. I haven't seen this tested, but it would be interesting to see how it compares to pixel motion from 30p footage.

But let's not for an instant assume that this is a "normal" workflow, or that this is what is happening behind the scenes in a normal video editing suite when your 60i footage is being deinterlaced.

I hope this helps and that we are now all clear on what is what.

[Eric Olson]

Starting with 60 fields per second just rescale the fields into frames to get 60 frames per second. In the context of slow motion for sports, rescaling the fields in 60i to 60p and slowing this down to 30p looks far better than starting with 30p and slowing that down to 15p. However, if you do not want slow motion, film in 30p for web delivery.

[Ronald Jackson]

Any opinions here as to how good the camera is as I'm thinking of buying one?

Ron

[Mikko Topponen]

Originally Posted by Andree Markefors

But please tell me that you realize that you cannot "obtain" 60 progressive frames out of 60 interlaced fields. Please acknowledge this!!

It's called bob-deinterlacing. It effectively creates two progressive images from one interlaced. It's not rocket science.

This way I could create a 300p file from 30p footage.

And it would be way more horrible than having a 60i image. Try it out yourself.

I haven't seen this tested...

Obviously you haven't. Software solutions are not that good. You cannot make a completely smooth 60p from a 30p file if the motion is even slightly complex. You can from a 60i. It will half the vertical resolution but it's still a lot better than using pixel motion.

But let's not for an instant assume that this is a "normal" workflow, or that this is what is happening behind the scenes in a normal video editing suite when your 60i footage is being deinterlaced.

It has been quite normal for Premiere and AE users as they handle interlacing way better than FCP. FCP does not do proper deinterlacing, it's actually terrible at it.

[Robert Young]

Originally Posted by Ronald Jackson

Any opinions here as to how good the camera is as I'm thinking of buying one?

Ron

Frankly, the consensus seems to be that the XA-10/G-10 is a spectacular camera.
Here is a massively detailed review of the camera:
Canon Vixia HF G10 Camcorder Review - CamcorderInfo.com

[Andree Markefors]

Originally Posted by Mikko Topponen

It will half the vertical resolution.

See! I knew we could get there if I only held my breath long enough!!

If you want to read up on Bob Deinterlacing, here's a small snippet from Wikipedia:

"Simple doublers (Bob and Linear) display only one half-picture at a time. Nevertheless, the quick alternating display produces a convincing illusion of full vertical resolution while playback is running."