Old user, new camera

[Rodger Marjama]

Hey guys.

Been away for few years, just too busy with 2 business' to frequent most of my forums. But, had to buy a new backup camera for my DVX100S, so decided on the HV40. Got it coming in tomorrow from B&H, so thought I'd post here for a little help -- Yes, even us old timers sometimes need some advise.

First of all, I think alot of folks are saying this camera shoots in 1080p. Since the CMOS captures full HDV (1920x1080) it is possible, but the recording system seems to record in 1080i. I suspect this most like means there is a pull down for this to make native 1080p from the recorded 1080i footage, but I can't seem to find this info one the PDF manual.

So, can someone with absolute knowledge of this please chime in here. I will know for sure within a few minutes of getting my camera tomorrow, but it is an itch I'd like scratched right away.

Thanks a bunch.

-Rodger

[Predrag Vasic]

Yes, HV-40 (much like pretty much all consumer camcorders) captures progressive footage inside 60i stream. If you select 30p, there is no need to do a pulldown, since the framerate is a true match. All you need to do is deinterlace the 60i stream into 30p and you're done. Many software tools (both Mac and Windows) can easily do this.

If you shoot in 24p, you will need to remove the pulldown from that 60i stream. There are several tools for this, most popular being the above-advertised Cineform NeoScene.

One other thing; since this camcorder is HDV, even though its sensor captures 1920x1080, the video that is encoded on tape is 1440x1080. HDV does NOT support resolutions greater than that.

[Rodger Marjama]

On another forum, the moderator is saying that footage shot in 24F records directly in 24p mode on tape. Not sure if this is true, but thought I'd post it while I check it out.

-Rodger

[Steve Rosen]

There is a 24p native choice - Canon calls it 24f for reasons I don't remember. I edit with FCP in a 24p timeline, intercutting with another (Panasonic) 24p camera, and it looks pretty good. I boost the chroma and dial down the blacks to get a better match with the Panasonic.

[Rodger Marjama]

Well got the camera a few hours ago and so I'm doing some playing around with it. It gives every indication that it's worth the money spent, even though there will be a few things I'm sure will bug me. For one thing, this is a super small camera for my big mitts. It's not that I can't use it (I hope it's not), but large hands and huge fingers seem to be a bit at odds here with this little guy. Also, I spent about an hour trying most all of the settings and I maybe will have a little more time to "remember" them, but it took me a couple of weeks (maybe more) to feel comfortable with my DVX100. All this means is, I will have to be happy with limited options and choose my shots within their settings. Other side of the spectrum from the DVX, but that's also what I had expected. Shot just a couple of quick clips and I am well pleased with the color values and clarity. There is some noise there to be sure, but outdoors or with decent lights, I think this thing will do quite well.

And, it works very well as a tape transport for my broken firewire in the DVX -- All very good so far.

-Rodger

[Rodger Marjama]

Well, hit a pretty good wall. Seems there isn't any way to get footage back onto tape with either Premiere CS3 or Vegas 8.0. I'm still shooting/testing in 24F, so there may be issues with true 24 for some odd-ball reason. I guess it's possible that the other settings will allow transfers back to tape, but since I'm not too interested in the other modes right now, I will continue to work on 24F to see if I can figure it out.

Getting ready to either make or buy a something like the Hague MMC or Merlin. If I make one, it will most likely be something close to the Merlin. One of my companies does CNC and light fab work, so I can utilize this to pretty much to design and build whatever I'd like.

Going to look at 35mm converters a little closer along with matte box and rails. I have a DV Rig Pro I use on my DVX100a, which I really like, so I might even see about designing a lighter version for this little camera.

We'll see.

-Rodger

[Taky Cheung]

HV40 can record in 24F or PF24. 24F is just 24p with full 24 progressive frame per second. PF24 is 24p with pulldown frames inserted. So you will need to remove pulldown to get the full 24p stream. Since you are buying HV40, you can just go with 24F and not to worry about pulldown removal.

PF30 is segmented 30p in a 60i wrapper. both fields record the same content. So even though it will be reported as 60i in your NLE, you can just treat it as 30p.

[Tripp Woelfel]

Just to back fill a little info... Canon call their 24fps progressive setting 24f because is uses a interlaced sensor so it technically isn't 24p but the net effect is the same.

Also, HDV isn't 1920. It's 1440 with a PAR of 1.33

[Rodger Marjama]

Thanks for the info guys. Now the tough questions begin.

I've pretty well exhausted much hope of getting captured footage back into this camera (24F footage anyway). I've upgraded my Vegas to the 9.0, and I can capture fine using vegas now. They've modified the "Print to Tape" function now. Split it into "Print Video to Tape" and "Print Video to HDV Tape". Both seem to have the "right stuff (settings-wise), but still can print HDV back to tape using 60i settings. I anyone getting HDV back into this camera I wonder?

-Rodger

[Martyn Hull]

Mm we must be lucky in pal land, projects recorded in 25P capture and edit and output back to the cam no problems and i only use pinnacle.

[Roger Van Duyn]

As far as I know, 60i is the only option for recording back to tape with the HV-30. It most definitely is the only option with Avid Liquid. But I don't record back to tape anymore anyway. Haven't for several years now.

[Rodger Marjama]

I'm thinking that there is something in the HV40 that is different then others in the HV lineup when it comes to printing HDV back to tape. It's either that, or most likely this camera is faulty, or the entire HV40 line has some glitches in firmware regarding printing HDV to tape.

I've posted this in 3 different forums I'm in and also called B&H. No one seems to know what the problem is.

I have successfully printed DV to tape in Vegas 9.0. I suppose Premiere CS3 will do the same. It's just the HDV portion where the problem lies. Transcodes from both Vegas and Premiere are apparently not liked by this camera as everything works up to the point where the camera begins to record. It just stops after a few minutes and then gives an error message on the camera "Check the HD/DV Input". Nothing gets recorded, so it's pretty much a problem with the transcode or the ability of this model to actually record HDV back to tape, period.

Next call I guess will have to be to canon tech support. Hope they answer.

-Rodger

[Martyn Hull]

The HV20/30/40 site would soon clear up your problems there is no way HV footage cannot be put back to tape whatever the frame rate or tv system.

[Rodger Marjama]

I've had this question there for a day or so, no answers yet.

-Rodger

[Dale Guthormsen]

Rodger,


I was curious, why are you going from tape to tape?? Just for storage? Or you making a master to send out?