I'm not getting the advertised 24Mbps out of my Canon HFS10

[Craig Terott]

Just purchased a Canon HFS10.

For sure, I have it set to 24Mbps mode (MXP mode).

I shoot several videos, then imported using iMovie. When I check the stream info in MPEG stream clip and Final Cut Pro, they both tell me the same thing ...approx 14Mbps.

Anyone have any ideas as to why I'm not getting the video bitrate the camera is advertised to do?

[Bill Koehler]

Looking at page 45 of the Instruction Manual, under Selecting the Video Quality (Recording Mode) it says:

"The camcorder uses a variable bit rate (VBR) to encode video so the actual recording times will vary depending on the content of the scenes."

[Craig Terott]

Originally Posted by Bill Koehler

Looking at page 45 of the Instruction Manual, under Selecting the Video Quality (Recording Mode) it says:

"The camcorder uses a variable bit rate (VBR) to encode video so the actual recording times will vary depending on the content of the scenes."

Going alone with your theory. I would expect to see 21Mbps or 22.5, or even 19Mbps. I could except that. But when a camera is rated for 24Mbps I doubt it would vary by that much. I've never seen anything above 14.3? And shooting a busy scene? Don't think so.

[Larry Horwitz]

Sample footage I have seen here from both the HFS10 as well as last year's HF11 (another full rate 24 Mbit/sec AVCHD camcorder) both clearly show 24 Mbit/sec (or thereabouts) rates in any of my editing and playback sofware.

I am guessing that iMovie has no ability yet to process the full bit rate video at 24 mbits/sec or, possibly, that it is ingesting it but then transcoding it down to a lesser rate as a Quicktime mov file format.

Larry

[Jurij Turnsek]

If you are using an SD card, make sure it's fast enough. I have no problems like this one with my HFS100... Maybe try and calculate the bitrate on your own, using the filesize and clip length, to see if the application got it wrong.

[Craig Terott]

Originally Posted by Jurij Turnsek

If you are using an SD card, make sure it's fast enough. I have no problems like this one with my HFS100... Maybe try and calculate the bitrate on your own, using the filesize and clip length, to see if the application got it wrong.

I'm using the camera's internal card. I calculated the bitrate on my own and it confirms the stream info I get from MPEG stream clip and final cut pro.

Clearly the camera is set to MXP. I just tried using Final Cut's Log & Transfer utility and i see that it converts the file to Apple Pro Res during import. I'm see getting bitrates in the 17.x range with these. iMovies imports are still below 15 no matter what I do.

[Stuart Robinson]

Originally Posted by Craig Terott

I'm using the camera's internal card. I calculated the bitrate on my own and it confirms the stream info I get from MPEG stream clip and final cut pro.

It's really difficult to calculate VBR data rates, so can you take a look at the clips with MediaInfo, which should tell you a good deal more than FCP. The URL is: MediaInfo

I'm the same as others, I consistently get ~22-24MBs out of the camera (a HF S100) in MXP mode. A really obvious suggestion, but can you point it at the leaves of a tree in the wind (something where the entire frame has detail and movement) and check out the specifics of that clip?

[Wacharapong Chiowanich]

Originally Posted by Craig Terott

iMovies imports are still below 15 no matter what I do.

Are you sure you had set the option to import the footage at the full 1920x1080 and not the default 960x540 resolution?

If you had, then try transfering the footage direct from the camera using a USB cable, or changing card reading interface from the express card slot to a USB slot etc. It looks to me there is something wrong with the interface and not the card.

[Craig Terott]

Originally Posted by Wacharapong Chiowanich

Are you sure you had set the option to import the footage at the full 1920x1080 and not the default 960x540 resolution?

If you had, then try transfering the footage direct from the camera using a USB cable, or changing card reading interface from the express card slot to a USB slot etc. It looks to me there is something wrong with the interface and not the card.

When it asks if I want to import at the FULL 1920 x 1080 I always select it. In fact, I have never, in my life, ever, checked the other box for the lower resolution.

I have also tried coping the entire directory for the internal card to my hard drive, then imported the video from that folder. And of course I've done direct transfers while the camera is connected with USB.

Same result on MacPro 8 core (12gig ram) and MacBook Pro (4gig ram). Files that are under 15 Mbps. Both running Leopard 10.5.8

[Craig Terott]

Originally Posted by Stuart Robinson

A really obvious suggestion, but can you point it at the leaves of a tree in the wind (something where the entire frame has detail and movement) and check out the specifics of that clip?

In one of my tests I shot video while rotating and waving the camera around erratically. Same thing, files under 15Mbps. I just don't get it.

I talked to two Canon customer support reps yesterday, they had no clue.

[Stuart Robinson]

Originally Posted by Craig Terott

Same thing, files under 15Mbps. I just don't get it.

Apologies for sounding like a scratched record, but what does MediaInfo say? It might reveal that the camera is using an odd profile.

We know that the camera curtails the data rate if the device it's writing to isn't fast enough, so to rule out an issue with the internal memory, have you tried recording to an SDHC card instead, and copying its contents directly to your computer?

[Craig Terott]

Originally Posted by Stuart Robinson

Apologies for sounding like a scratched record, but what does MediaInfo say? It might reveal that the camera is using an odd profile.

We know that the camera curtails the data rate if the device it's writing to isn't fast enough, so to rule out an issue with the internal memory, have you tried recording to an SDHC card instead, and copying its contents directly to your computer?

No need to apologize. The clip info looks normal. Not sure what you mean by "odd profile."

I bought an SDHC card yesterday (overnight) and will be here today. I'm going to test it today. I'll post the results.

[Stuart Robinson]

Originally Posted by Craig Terott

The clip info looks normal. Not sure what you mean by "odd profile."

I should've been clearer; you're looking for High@L4.0 and CABAC. If the data rate is being curtailed, you might see a different profile.

Originally Posted by Craig Terott

I bought an SDHC card yesterday (overnight) and will be here today. I'm going to test it today. I'll post the results.

If that doesn't help, then I think we're stumped and it'll be a trip back to your dealer.

[Paul R Johnson]

It's like broadband. 'Up to' a theoritical maximum. Like my 20Mbs broadband chugging along at 1.7Mbs.

[Ron Cooper]

Craig, I'm not a Mac user but there are many editors out there proclaiming that they handle AVCHD, but in the fine print they only handle up to 17 MBps. Perhaps you should check the Mac's specs. In fact does anyone know of an editor that actually DOES fully handle 24MBps AVCHD ?

This is apparently the case in Vegas which I use, and, further, in the manual on "Handling AVCHD" it states :- 1) Shoot your video with a "SONY" AVCHD camcorder !

Tough luck, if like us, people use the great little Canon HF-S10.

It's a minefield out there when it comes to AVCHD, which personally I think they should never have unleashed until it was a fully uniform format. As it is now, AVCHD is Mpeg4 / H.264 in all different wrappers, few of which seem to be compatible.

RonC.