HF S1000 Cine Mode Shutter Speeds?

Xian Messerschmidt · September 7th, 2009, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Hickling

Most folks may know this already, but I didn't. On the HF10 and HF100, it's possible to get a readout of the aperture and shutter being used in any mode (Tv, Av, CINE) by half-pressing the PHOTO button. (You need to have the 'Still I REC" option activated for this to work).

Maybe this works for the HF S100 also? - worth a try.....

It works on the HFS100 but you have to set the camera mode dial to "Dual Shot." Flipping back and forth between modes makes it more hassle than it's worth.

Stuart Robinson · September 7th, 2009, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xian Messerschmidt

It works on the HFS100 but you have to set the camera mode dial to "Dual Shot." Flipping back and forth between modes makes it more hassle than it's worth.

It seemingly works for me in the video-only mode too, when replaying recorded footage the aperture and shutter speed match what was reported by a half-press.

Stuart Robinson · September 7th, 2009, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin Davies-Rollinson

When I play back footage in the camera shot in Cinema mode and cycle through the on-screen data info, I can see that shots shot in 'good' exterior light show up at 1/50th. Whereas an interior shot under 'gloomy' conditions will show as 1/25th.

Robin, I too was under the impression Cine Mode tried to keep the shutter speed at 1/50th on a PAL camera, but after a day's shooting that's not what mine is doing - at all.

It seems that the camera is trying to maintain f4.0 and will vary the shutter speed to do that. In low light, it'll first open the aperture then drop the shutter speed, but in bright light, it'll stick as closely as possible to f4.0 and vary the shutter speed. During one of my shots, a helicopter flew low overhead so my instant reaction was to film it, and I can see that the camera stayed at f4.0 even with the bright sky, but the shutter speed shot up to 1/250th and the unnatural effect on the rotor blades is obvious... which is precisely not what I want it to do.

Xian Messerschmidt · September 7th, 2009, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart Robinson

It seemingly works for me in the video-only mode too, when replaying recorded footage the aperture and shutter speed match what was reported by a half-press.

On the HFS100?

Stuart Robinson · September 7th, 2009, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xian Messerschmidt

On the HFS100?

Yes, although you have to set simultaneous recording to "On", otherwise a red, flashing warning icon will appear beneath the video recording quality indicator.

Robin Davies-Rollinson · September 8th, 2009, 12:37 AM

Surely, if you switch to Dual Mode you're over-riding all other settings and are shooting in what was called Easy Mode on the HF10?

Stuart Robinson · September 8th, 2009, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin Davies-Rollinson

Surely, if you switch to Dual Mode you're over-riding all other settings and are shooting in what was called Easy Mode on the HF10?

Don't use Dual Mode... in other words, leave the camera on the film mode, the middle setting on the dial at the rear. Then go into the Function menu and the still shooting settings (second from bottom). The default is Simultaneous Recording: "Off", if you change that to any other setting - I have it on LW/Super Fine, then the half-press will work regardless of the shooting mode, be it Cine, TV etc, and whether any other custom options are set.

Robin Davies-Rollinson · September 8th, 2009, 03:30 PM

Okay, I see what you mean now.
I've just tried it and it works fine.
Very useful - many thanks!

Xian Messerschmidt · September 27th, 2009, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart Robinson

Robin, I too was under the impression Cine Mode tried to keep the shutter speed at 1/50th on a PAL camera, but after a day's shooting that's not what mine is doing - at all.

It seems that the camera is trying to maintain f4.0 and will vary the shutter speed to do that. In low light, it'll first open the aperture then drop the shutter speed, but in bright light, it'll stick as closely as possible to f4.0 and vary the shutter speed. During one of my shots, a helicopter flew low overhead so my instant reaction was to film it, and I can see that the camera stayed at f4.0 even with the bright sky, but the shutter speed shot up to 1/250th and the unnatural effect on the rotor blades is obvious... which is precisely not what I want it to do.

That's why I've sworn off Cinemode. It will vary the shutter speed as it deems necessary. That may be fine for some people but not for me.

Peter Moretti · November 18th, 2009, 04:08 AM

I think it depends what the alternative is and what kind of shot you are after.

If you want the scene lit darkly, then perhaps it's best not to let the camera to change to a slower shutter speed. But you might have to deal with excess noise in post production. In which case, a change in shutter speed may have been a good alternative.

The other alternatives are adding gain, which Cinema mode will also do and adding more light to the composition.

When composing in low light, at some point, sensor noise becomes an issue that has to be acknowledged.

Charles Higham · December 15th, 2009, 08:16 AM

This is all very helpful information so thank you for sharing it. I intend to purchase the HF S10 (PAL) and quite a lot of my shooting will be in the low light conditions you find in a forest in daylight and at dawn/dusk, so pretty gloomy sometimes. The camcorder will often be handheld and I will be walking a fair bit too while shooting. I don’t mind a darker picture overall or deep shadow as long as the images do not contain too much noise (hence the gain limit). I am considering the following settings: 25p 1/50 AGC limited to 12dB. Sharpness and colour set to -1.

Leaving aside the OIS aspects, based on your experiences with this camcorder would you recommend other settings for the conditions I will be filming in? I prefer a smooth ‘film look’ and the advantages in low light offered by 25p, and don’t mind a slightly soft image. I have read quite a lot about the Cinemode function and there has been a debate about the pros and cons. From what I have picked up, resolution is not significantly sacrificed but you lose some control over what the camcorder is doing in terms of shutter speeds. Nevertheless, if I can set the AGC limit with cinemode this might be a good route for me to take. One consideration is that many of my scenes will be complex in content with densely packed detail (lots of verticals and a million leaves) so I recognise motion may actually be my biggest problem when trying to avoid noise and artifacts. Any advice gratefully received.

November 18th, 2009, 04:08 AM	#25
Peter Moretti Trustee Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 1,259	I think it depends what the alternative is and what kind of shot you are after. If you want the scene lit darkly, then perhaps it's best not to let the camera to change to a slower shutter speed. But you might have to deal with excess noise in post production. In which case, a change in shutter speed may have been a good alternative. The other alternatives are adding gain, which Cinema mode will also do and adding more light to the composition. When composing in low light, at some point, sensor noise becomes an issue that has to be acknowledged. __________________ Avid Media Composer 3.1.3. Boris Red and Continuum Complete. Vegas 8.0c. TMPGEnc Xpress Pro 4.0

September 8th, 2009, 12:37 AM	#21
Robin Davies-Rollinson Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Gwaelod-y-garth, Cardiff, CYMRU/WALES Posts: 1,215	Surely, if you switch to Dual Mode you're over-riding all other settings and are shooting in what was called Easy Mode on the HF10?

September 8th, 2009, 03:30 PM	#23
Robin Davies-Rollinson Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Gwaelod-y-garth, Cardiff, CYMRU/WALES Posts: 1,215	Okay, I see what you mean now. I've just tried it and it works fine. Very useful - many thanks!

December 15th, 2009, 08:16 AM	#26
Charles Higham New Boot Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: London UK Posts: 19	This is all very helpful information so thank you for sharing it. I intend to purchase the HF S10 (PAL) and quite a lot of my shooting will be in the low light conditions you find in a forest in daylight and at dawn/dusk, so pretty gloomy sometimes. The camcorder will often be handheld and I will be walking a fair bit too while shooting. I don’t mind a darker picture overall or deep shadow as long as the images do not contain too much noise (hence the gain limit). I am considering the following settings: 25p 1/50 AGC limited to 12dB. Sharpness and colour set to -1. Leaving aside the OIS aspects, based on your experiences with this camcorder would you recommend other settings for the conditions I will be filming in? I prefer a smooth ‘film look’ and the advantages in low light offered by 25p, and don’t mind a slightly soft image. I have read quite a lot about the Cinemode function and there has been a debate about the pros and cons. From what I have picked up, resolution is not significantly sacrificed but you lose some control over what the camcorder is doing in terms of shutter speeds. Nevertheless, if I can set the AGC limit with cinemode this might be a good route for me to take. One consideration is that many of my scenes will be complex in content with densely packed detail (lots of verticals and a million leaves) so I recognise motion may actually be my biggest problem when trying to avoid noise and artifacts. Any advice gratefully received.