archiving from the HF S10 - newbie here

[Andrew Plowright]

Hi,

I'm a converted tape user - just bought the HF S10.

I hate staarting a new thread, but I just can't seem to find the answers using search or reading countless other Threads.... sorry in advance... SO........


I don't have the latest Final Cut yet (deciding whether to go Pro or FC Express this time).

I have always used Final Cut Pro with DV tape footage and it's been great, but now I have the new cam I'd like to be able to get advice on:

- getting the footage off the camera before I eventually buy a version of Final Cut (my iMovie is also a couple of years old)

- archiving the footage in un-molested format i.e. just as it was filmed and stored on the camera.

- choosing which application (bearing in mind I know FCPro)


With the first test footage I filmed:

I copied (dragged and dropped) all the folders from the camera as it appeared via the Mac into a folder on an external drive

I have now filmed a whole concert and want to know whether doing the above will cause me problems when I do eventually get FCP or FCExpress or iMovie etc

Can I import the clips via Log & Capture on Final Cut ?

Do I have to ensure that I also import some of the "support" data that is stored in various folders on the Canon?


As for choosing the editing Application, I don't want to lose any picture quality - is it true that iMovie will contribute to a loss.

thanks
Andrew

[Predrag Vasic]

Here are my answers, to the best of my ability (and knowledge):

Your success will depend on how old your Final Cut and iMovie are. FCP 6, FCE 4 and iMovie 08 (and 09) will recognise AVCHD file system and allow log and transfer (for FCP/FCE) or clip import (for iMovie). However, all Apple apps require the original, untouched directory and file structure. I have tested this and it will work with:

Camcorder hooked up via USB;
USB card reader with SDHC card in it;
DVD-R (and DVD+R DL), as long as the original files are all copied and the file system is the same;
USB stick memory (same).

It will NOT work with file system copied onto an external drive if it's buried in another directory.

As for editing on a Mac, all Apple software (iMovie, FCP, FCE) transcode AVCHD files into much less compressed temporary files for editing. These are either AIC (Apple Intermediate Codec, for FCE or iMovie), or Apple ProRes (FCP). They will keep the same picture resolution and frame rate as the original AVCHD (although iMovie will try to "strongly" urge you to transcode into 540 instead of 1080, implying that the quality difference is imperceptible, and space saving is significant). On Mac, the only NLE today that edits AVCHD files directly is Premiere. Editing is quite slow, AVCHD files play back with a lot of stutter. Transcoding is, therefore, a much better option.

If you choose to shoot in 24p (US camcorders), another obstacle presents itself. Canon wraps 24p into 60i, inserting the old-fashioned pull-down into the stream. If you want to edit the material in true 24p, you'll have to transcode it while removing the extra fields. After Effects can do it, but there's a cheaper way if you're FCP guy. CineForm's NeoScene has the ability to detect 24p stream inside 60i and remove the pulldown frames, transcoding the footage into either their own Cineform codec, or AIC, or ProRes from Apple. In addition to 24 progressive frames, without any redundant fields, you also get better chroma sampling (Cineform supports 4:2:2, compared to AVCHD's 4:2:0).

As for archiving original AVCHD footage, I would suggest doing what you already did: copy the entire directory structure into a folder on a separate hard disk. I have an HF100 with an 8GB card, so I also back up the card when it's full onto a DVD-DL (dual-layer). These DVDs are playable in full HD on most Blu-ray players today, without any modification (although some BD players need you to rename some extensions on some of the files). Obviously, this wouldn't work that well for you, since you have more memory in the camcorder than would fit on an 8.3GB DVD-DL. External HD as an archival backup is a reasonable solution, as long as you keep redundant copies (i.e. two separate drives), just in case one drive fails and takes your collection down with it.

[Andrew Plowright]

i have only a minute to read and respond right NOW but just let me say THANKS !

i'll digest this a little later as I'm at work now

[Brian Boyko]

Originally Posted by Predrag Vasic

If you choose to shoot in 24p (US camcorders), another obstacle presents itself. Canon wraps 24p into 60i, inserting the old-fashioned pull-down into the stream. If you want to edit the material in true 24p, you'll have to transcode it while removing the extra fields. After Effects can do it, but there's a cheaper way if you're FCP guy. CineForm's NeoScene has the ability to detect 24p stream inside 60i and remove the pulldown frames,

Cineform isn't the only solution to this problem - there's also JES Deinterlacer, which converts the files into MJPEG, but does the same thing with 24p pulldown. You can also pull this off if you have Compressor, but I get better results from JES Deinterlacer.

[Andrew Plowright]

QUOTE:
However, all Apple apps require the original, untouched directory and file structure. I have tested this and it will work with:

Camcorder hooked up via USB;
USB card reader with SDHC card in it;
DVD-R (and DVD+R DL), as long as the original files are all copied and the file system is the same;
. . . . . .
As for archiving original AVCHD footage, I would suggest doing what you already did: copy the entire directory structure into a folder on a separate hard disk.

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thanks again guys...

so from what you've written in the first post, It'll be OK if, for example, every time I use the camera, I simply copy over the WHOLE contents of the camera hard drive (since I'm not bothering to use SD cards except in emergency).

I know that'll waste a lotta external hard drive space, but I figure it's just easier to copy everything and buy lotsa drives . I used to spend A LOT on tapes, so i'm not that worried - as long as i have a good, safe archive. (backed up repeatedly - 'twas a good reminder there !)

that will ensure the Apple apps are happy - since file structure is the same.


ow I'm trying to decide whether I should buy the wide convertor, cos these 16:9 cameras are hopeless when up front filming bands.... hmmmm